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lateral shot patterning?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by BDodd, Apr 24, 2007.

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  1. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    John, I've heard of guys that would put up a strip of paper covering maybe 25 or 30 feet side to side and then try to swing across the paper and pull the trigger. But I never saw any definitive results from the attempts to prove, disprove, define, or demonstrate what you suggest....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  2. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    What Andrew said.

    Same as asking, "If you swing a rifle fast enough when you shoot it, can you make the bullet do a flat tumble?"

    No, of course not.
     
  3. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    What you seem to be asking is whether or not the patten might be oval, laterally, because of horizontal barrel movement. Or... if, because of the barrel's lateral movement, might the pattern as a whole, be launched slightly in the direction of barrel movement.

    My guess is "no", not to any measurable extent in both cases. The shot is encased in a wad's shot cup and would not be "strung out" as a result of the barrel's movement as the shot is exiting the barrel.

    The answer to the second possible question would also be "no" because of the slow lateral speed of the swing. If, on the other hand, the shooter were rotating much faster, 1000 RPM for example, I am quite certain the pattern as a whole would impact off the gun's point of aim in the same direction as the rotation, to the right from station 5, in your example.

    The challenges of such an experiment would involve rotating the shooter fast enough and differentiating the point of aim from the point of impact. These of course, in addition to getting the shooter to hang onto his gun while being rotated at high speed and getting him to fire at the right time to place the pattern anywhere near the pattern board with the amount of dizziness and disorientation he would likely be experiencing at the time.

    Rollin
     
  4. Bob_K

    Bob_K Well-Known Member

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    Bob Brister's book, "Shotgunning: The Art and the Science" had some info on the shape of a pattern that was not based in a static patterning board environment. He was trying to capture data on shot stringing and its effect on hitting targets. Still makes most interesting reading.
     
  5. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    x-factor

    There will be no difference. There can't be.

    As Andrew said, the length of the shot stream as it leaves the muzzle is the height of the shot cup. And its moving 1200 feet per second. The muzzle of you gun "might" be moving laterally at 10 feet per second. Maybe not even that.

    The length of the wad is about 1-3/4 inches. The amount of time it takes for the wad to pass through the muzzle, front to back, is about one ten-thousandth of a second (0.0001 seconds.) Your barrel muzzle will have moved 0.015 inches in that time.

    Shot WILL NOT behave like a stream of water being sprayed from a nozzle as you swing the hose. It just can't guys.
     
  6. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    biff,

    It only looks that way because your eyes are moving, following the target. Its an optical illusion.

    "Looks" like the shot turns into the target. In reality, the shot is traveling dead straight.
     
  7. Harold

    Harold TS Member

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    This was most recently debated under the topic "Technical Barrel Question." Although my efforts earned an F grade from Southpark, I did supply the correct answer.

    What we are talking about is shot stringing, and there is a tiny effect. Bob Brister tested shot stringing by shooting at a moving target board which his wife towed behind a car. He found some stringing effect but with hard 7 1/2 shot the pattern was almost round. It's not enough to worry about especially since a trap target is not crossing as fast as Brister's target.

    Can you duplicate Brister's test by swinging your barrel while shooting a stationary target? No, not with a normal shotgun move. That would only get the end of your barrel traveling horizontally on the order of a few miles per hour. One mph would be the muzzle speed if your eye is stationary and the muzzle is 1 yard away from your eye, tracking a 40 mph target 40 yards away.

    To get the same stringing effect as in Brister's test, you need to impart a lateral speed to your shot column equal to the crossing speed of Brister's target. You could do this by shooting out the window of a moving car at a stationary target, but not so easily by swinging the barrel.
     
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