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Known Ability

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by firecracker, Dec 2, 2007.

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  1. firecracker

    firecracker TS Member

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    If a person is capable of breaking a good score from a particular yardage, let's say 25 yds., once in a blue moon is it considered to be known ability because a good score has been broken from a particular yardage say once every 3,000 targets or so? cracker
     
  2. perazzitms

    perazzitms TS Member

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    Nobody but the Central Handicap Comm. can change somebody's handicap yardage. You can't go to the squadding table and have the guy look at your card and say "Oh, you shot a 95 from the 22 and didn't get any yardage - I think I'll put you on the 25". Won't happen.

    Known ability is for classifying singles. Most classifiers won't put you in C class with scores of 95, 96, 99, 98, 50. The 50 was either a fluke or you dumped trying to maintain your ringer "C" average.
     
  3. Little Dog

    Little Dog TS Member

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    It would appear that perazzitms is one of those rare ATA members who has actually read the rule book. Most apparently use it only for toilet paper.
     
  4. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Known ability can get you some extra yardage too. Hap
     
  5. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

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    Hap, Please explain how that happens.







    Jim
     
  6. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

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    Cracker......I don't know all the ATA mumbo jumbo about this, but as I see it, if you accomplished any level of shooting....only ONCE, then that's a "known Ability". In other words, given the same shooting conditions, you should be able to repeat it!
     
  7. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Jim, depending on who makes the call to the CHC or a member of the EC about one's know ability is all it takes. I don't think you'll find that in any rule book either, past or current but I once received some real estate via a phone call another person made. Hap
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Hap is correct. Many years ago I saw a shooter at a small shoot two weeks before the Grand drop one bird from his first 95 handicap targets and shoot the last 5 from the hip. I recommended to a CHC member that yardage be awarded to this shooter. The CHC followed my recommendation. Several times, I have recommended to the CHC that a code blocking reductions be applied to some shooters. My recommendations were always followed.

    I have also recommended, through the special review process, that a shooter be reduced from the 26 yard line to the 22 yard line. Amputation of one foot and shooting from a chair makes a difference in scores. Delegates are supposed to pay attention to their shooters.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. tomk2

    tomk2 Member

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    Nobody has mentioned that known ability in singles can limit reductions. Sure, that's not the same as giving you yardage, but I thought it worth including.
     
  10. gun1357

    gun1357 Active Member

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    I think Hap is right. When I switched from skeet to trap I was AA in all guns. One of my first handicap shoots was a "Winter Chain" shoot in Florida in the early '70s. I won with a 23,24,25 & 25. All kinds of folks were very interested in how I had learned to shoot. By Thursday I was back at the 23 yard line. Rules may have changed but looking back it seems fair what they did. I think someone at that shoot called me a "behind the barn shooter". Ron Renouf
     
  11. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    There are many examples of shooters receiving punches from Delegates and Central Handicap committee members. Sometimes for high averages, without shooting a punchable score (all without trying to excape a punch) and shooters being punched for high singles scores and averages. I do not agree with these
    practices but they have and do happen. - Jim
     
  12. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    I have a friend that gained yardage due to singles success. Winning his class in singles at the state shoot two years in a row IIRC got him moved from the 20 back to the 24. He contested it and eventually got moved back to the 22, but for all intents and purposes, he's quite shooting handicap.

    ~Michael
     
  13. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    The example my friend Pat Ireland speaks of is spot on and the correct thing to do as any good delegate should. I commend him for those actions since the guy deliberately "dropped" targets!

    I don't want any of my friends to think I fit anywhere near this category of shooter at any time in my ATA existence, a brief synopsis is called for here.Below is my targets/averages for the year this took place and had absolutely nothing to do with my state delegate or any registered targets I shot.

    "1973 700 94.71% 1400 88.14% 200 81.00%"

    This was my third year of shooting ATA targets until the fall of 73. (I've never shot many ATA targets, ever!)During that late summer, I shot two rounds of trap from 52 yards behind the trap with two others. One, a well known club operator who's caps yardage was the 21, the other a pretty good 27 yard shooter. The club operator made the suggestion we all shoot from the 27 for some cash. I said no way but I would partake from in front of the clubhouse, 52 yards away from the trap and we all use new traploads? All agreed and each bought two new boxes of AAs from the operator.I broke quite a few more birds than either in that game and won the cash. Two months later at a major shoot, I was informed I had received an extra yard on "known ability?" for shooting handicap targets.

    So, this wasn't about my trapshooting feats in ATA regulation targets, it was merely a call to a friend on the CHC that got the desired results. Brought about by someone I pizzed off by beating both at their game. Gene Hapney
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Gene- All we can do is hope that your situation was very rare when it happened and that it would no longer happen. I will agree that some members of the CHC will give the opinions of some individuals more weight than the opinions of others.

    Here is another interesting question that involves you. For a few years arthritis has hampered your shooting. I have direct knowledge of this. You have now moved to Arizona and your affliction is getting better. Should you be moved to a higher class because your arthritis is a little better (suspected ability) or should we wait until your scores are again high enough to move you up (demonstrated ability).

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Pat, as always, your insight and sense of fairness is always prevalent in your words whether written or spoken! Just between you and I, it's my hope that this has never happened to another shooter in our ranks either but I'm afraid that just isn't so. I responded to the question asked about "known ability" by (firecracker) in handicap situations primarily in responce to perazzitms and littledog's impressions/interpretations of the rule book. I wanted to point out there's other factors at play that's not in any rule book, current or past.



    Now, to answer your interesting question concerning my (suspected ability) and (demonstrated ability) since my move to beautiful Arizona. Either "suspected" or "demonstrated" is totally dependent on weather, as silly as that may sound, it's true! My affliction is tied directly to that scenario, whether or not I shoot a respectable score. Very hot dry days are best for me and it's possible I may win a class in singles or shoot a respectable handicap score on such a day! Here's the problem and it's twofold in applying either of your factors. Arizona's main shooting season doesn't really get underway till late fall and continues through the spring, the biggest shoots. Participating in the Autumn Grand, I now know I'm good for the first one to two hundred targets, prior to pain setting in.. Hot dry weather returns about May and it's a great time for me. (Thats when I moved here) The second factor during that time is the "monsoon season" which arrives in August with torrential downpours, not dry at all. My score card may be read as a barometer/temp. gauge according to my records kept. So my friend, if you ever venture out here to a shoot and assist in classifying, look at the temp/barometer gauge when I come through the line! You'll be a lot more accurate using that data than my known ability or my score card for that day's shooting. Thank you for asking my friend! Hap
     
  16. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    In 1969 I got bumped a yard on my Handicap average for 300 targets. I was classified at a shoot by former ATA President Herman 'Firecracker' Peterson from Montana and I earned my first ever punch from the 20 to the 20.5 yardline. I was very proud to have H.R. Peterson punch my card. I only shot 300 Handicap targets in 1968 and I earned a yard from the 20.5 to the 21.5 but my average was 93.33 and when I got my new 1969 card in the mail I was promoted to the 22 1/2 yardline. I was again very proud to have my card punched to the 27 the first time in 1990 by the late Zip Eaton also from Montana.
     
  17. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

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    They look at your 16 yard scores also. Shot my first registered targets since 94 "I believe" this year. My first handicap event I shot a 52. I am at 25.5 yard line. Well to make a long story short at the fall team shoot in MI. I did not have enough registered handicap targets so they made me shoot from the 27. had to ask the guy if he really thought I was a threat after shooting a 52. Keep in mind I quit shooting because of a eye injury and came back after lense transplants in april of this year. I love the ATA and the classifacation tent. Ya Baby!! Bill
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Hap- I do hope to shoot with you again and if I classify you again, I will certainly consider temperature. That does mean that you would have to bend over the classification desk and have one of your friends take your temperature. I have never seen that done before at classifications but I am always willing to help. It could even make a nice photograph for Trap and Field.

    I am pleased that your health problem is better some days.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    LMAO@McPat! My best face in T&F with a 98.6? :-( Not ezactly whut I had in mind here bud.

    It doesn't come as a surprise to me that you'd step up to the plate,(*) so to speak, to make sure you classified some %$@hole properly! Maybe the EC would award you some honorary "Proctologist/Classifier" degree in opening up new ways of classifying suspected individuals though? :) Think I'll pass on by your line next time, thanks anyway. :) Hap
     
  20. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    Hi I have some questions about this known ability thing. I started shooting last year and have never shot trap before. I learned that you need 1000 targets to not be penalized. As I was learning I didn't shoot that many handicaps as I was learning the 16's. I started shooting the doubles and handicaps after wards but I was always shooting in penalty B what ever that means. I knew the NE Grand was coming up so I hurried up to get 1000 targets in I shot alone to get the last 100 in. At the NE Grand they told me that I could shoot from the 20yd. and not have a chance to win anyting or shoot from the 22.5 where ever that is I used 23 yard mark and have a chance to win it all of course I chose th 23 but is that known ability ???. I mean is that what they used or is it some kinda formula that they use... Thanks


    Martin ATA# 0765881
     
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