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Kiner Blog 4

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Phil Kiner, Jan 4, 2009.

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  1. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    Two guys one a theoretical statistician and the other a practical analyst were asked the same question.

    If you have a completely naked lady in the middle of the room and ask both if they were to move half the distance to the lady on every succeeding move how long will it take till you can get to the lady and have some fun?

    The theoretical statistician will tell you that technically you will never get there an therefore will never get satisfaction.

    The practical analyst will tell you that theoretically you will never get there but you can get close enough for all practical purposes
     
  2. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Unless they're both skeet shooters...in which case they jump each other at the speed of light, and the lady gets really grossed out.
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Phil,

    I think your idea of having naked women on the trap line will help solve the handicap problem. Or at least will help take the inadequisies of the present system off the minds of the shooters. HMB
     
  4. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Sportsh?t there are people in Florida looking for you.
     
  5. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Phil, thanks for the relief. Phew!
     
  6. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Phil, thanks for the relief. Phew!
     
  7. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    back to the naked lady on the line -- at the fall grand, i shot on a squad which had a woman with very short shorts and long tanned reddish leggs-- i can tell you right now-- she had perfect foot stance!! and that is why i had a bad round!!!! i'm holden to my story?
     
  8. Pride Engineer

    Pride Engineer Member

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    Guys, I think Phil has a different message here. The words statistician and never get there have a special meaning.

    Mark Zauhar
     
  9. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Pride,

    I sense a pattern in your thinking...
     
  10. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    In college, we always used this joke to describe the difference between mathematicians and engineers.

    The mathematicians never got there, but the engineers got close enough for an "approximation."

    Of course, I was in engineering school at the time.
     
  11. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    My favorite was the joke about the Statistician, Physicist, and Philosopher riding on a train through Scotland. All 3 see a black sheep standing on a hill, and write their observations in their notebooks. The statistician writes, "The sheep in Scotland are black." The Physicist writes, "One of the sheep in Scotland is black." The Philosopher wrote, "At least one side of one of the sheep in Scotland is black."
     
  12. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    Pride-- Thank You for understanding
     
  13. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Depends on where one measures from on the body. If it's a trapshooter, and you measure from the chest, the belley will always get to it's objective before any other part of the body.
     
  14. bunkerup

    bunkerup TS Member

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    Phil I would be disappointed if your conversation on a new handicap system did not make the full circle and turn into this discussion.

    PS why don't you play another 4 6 off suit, yes i am still bitter. LOL
     
  15. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    PK you really need to get yourself down on Kofax!!!!!
     
  16. Delbert

    Delbert TS Member

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    looks like pmaster has a FTF.
     
  17. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    Come on guys-- are Pride and Jimmy Borum the only two that figured out what I was driving at???
     
  18. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    P.K., no. Hap
     
  19. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Let me guess, Phil. What you are promoting is a know-nothing approach to "testing" which is to say you do the test and decided on how to interpret the results (if any) later. The statistician, who's knowledge you think is no good - compared to yours, for example - will tell you that's a recipe for deluding yourself, rejecting real effects or accepting imaginary ones, and generally will just waste a lot of time and money to no good effect. It is universally accepted that a statistical test (that's what you and Mark are proposing) lays out the rules beforehand: what the independent and dependent variables are going to be, how they are measured, and what standard of proof, that is, how willing you are to accept a chance effect as a real one, and so forth.

    This statistical work is going to have to be done anyway, so why not do it first, when it should be done? Here's why

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    The three groups I chose were short (19-22.5), mid (23-26.5) and 27. As you see, there's a lot of similarity except for the 97's shot by 27-yarders which were about cut in half in the final event. Why? I don't know and you don't know. Does it "mean something" or not? If we did Mark's "test" and got some result, would it "mean something" or not? Again, neither of us has any idea.

    I know that both of you think that delay is unbearable, but there's going to be a delay anyway, the Grand isn't until August. I suggest that you and Mark hire this out and come back with a plan. Neither of you has any right, after all, to run the shooters at the Grand through this unless you can point to a benefit and without a plan, there will be no benefit, just a bunch of argument what the results (if any) mean.

    Have you talked with Federal again about helping with the wording of a rule and whether they will test protested shells for us? If a validated test is run, and it advises a rule changes, we may need it.

    Neil

    (added edit) As I look at those results, I wonder just what is thought to be "wrong" with them. There are a lot of good 27-yard shooters there. They do shoot about three times as many 96's as the other groups, but they are surely (more than) three times as good as most other shooters there. Isn't this what _should_ happen?
     
  20. otnot

    otnot Active Member

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    Phil, to change anything in America these days takes an act of congress. I feel for your frustrations as your only doing what you think is best for our sport. It is time for change!
     
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