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kindergartner expelled for making a gun with hands

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by Joe Potosky, Feb 12, 2010.

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  1. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    kindergartner expelled for making a gun with hands

    YAKIMA, Wash.- Manuel Alvarez eats breakfast and gets ready for school. He's eager but nervous. He was expelled Monday from Barge Lincoln Elementary for making a gun with his hands. His mom says it's a hand gesture that could have easily been corrected.

    "He didn't know did they talk to him about it what actions were taken to tell him this isn't allowed," Lorena Hurtado, Manuel's mother.

    Manuel has a clean record never in trouble before his mother says a warning would have worked or even a parent-teacher meeting. Instead, His mom says, Manuel's afraid.

    "I got a call from the School saying he's not raising his hand or speaking up. He's scared after we talked about not doing any gestures, he probably doesn't want to to do it because that could be a gesture. It might get him pulled out for two days," said Hurtado.

    Manuel's mom doesn't see anything wrong with her son putting his hands like this and shooting down at the ground. She doesn't think it poses an immediate threat to the school or Manuel's classmates. We took the issue to School District employees and asked them about their policy.

    "When students are at school they should be concerned about learning….safety shouldn't be a concern at school, we have a zero tolerance policy," said Dr. John Irion, from the Yakima School District.

    Hurtado understands the policy, but in this case doesn't think the punishment fits the crime, especially when the student in question is in kindergarten.

    "A five-year-old shouldn't be held to the same policy as a 12th grader...he is in kindergarten," said Hurtado.

    Lorena Hurtado is appealing the expulsion and wants to try to clear her son's record. She says she doesn't want her five-year-old to be labeled as a troublemaker.

    http://www.kndu.com/global/story.asp?s=11979866
     
  2. dimapower

    dimapower Member

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    Effing crazy! Tired of this type of bull crap in our nation!
     
  3. nipper

    nipper TS Member

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    he should of been expelled
     
  4. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    I'll bet he could have worn a shirt with a picture of Bin Laden on it. Jim
     
  5. no5shooter

    no5shooter Member

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    Nipper, whaddaya, nuts? And by the way, it's "should have been," not "should of been." I've never met a schoolteacher who knew sh__ from wild honey anyway, and the administrators of this kind of nonsense are worse. A little kid points his fingers like a gun and he gets suspended? That's insanity. The damn inmates are in charge of the asylum...
     
  6. Ted K.

    Ted K. Member

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    Flincher-

    I checked both Snopes and FactCheck, and neither had anything relevant to this story. But MSNBC.com has the story:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35375269/ns/local_news-yakima_wa/

    and so does a local Yakima TV station:

    http://www.khq.com/global/story.asp?s=11979866

    In each case, the story is identical (verbatim) to the quote at the top of this thread.

    If you do a Google search for "Yakima kindergarten" you'll see the stories near the top of the response.

    Ted K.
     
  7. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    RE: Seems very doubtful.

    A true article. I don't have to make this up.

    Unfortunately, not the first time this type of action against a student is seen at various schools across the country.

    Just last week we had the child in trouble because he brought a Lego action figure with two inch plastic gun attached to his local school.
     
  8. krakadawn

    krakadawn TS Member

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    It's hard to believe people would choose to deal with Kindergarten children or other primary aged students in such a manner.This is clearly an issue that the teacher deals with and shapes the child's behaviour so that he/she learns what's appropriate.As kids get older and similar behaviour occurs then time to deal with things differently.
    I'd like some accuracy regarding the report as 'expulsion' means out-not for a day but out whereas a suspension defines the number of days prior to return.
    As a Principal for 27 years(now retired),I would clearly expect the teacher to deal with this initially even prior to my involvement,most definitely at this age this is dealt with here at school and if concerns continue get parents on board and go from there. Expusion/suspension at this level/age is unacceptable and not in any way shape or form condusive to helping the student.
    You would get an entirely different answer for older students but let's get involved trying to help and develop healthy attitudes here at this age.
    All I can add is that this wouldn't happen on my watch!

    Jim
     
  9. Hoosier Daddy

    Hoosier Daddy TS Member

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    This is just more of the PC crap we contend with daily. It is past time to step up and say enough! We have to end this before it destroys us.
     
  10. HC_John

    HC_John TS Member

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    This is pure BS. Now the kid doesn't even dare to raise his hand. I can understand the zero tolerance, but to discipline a young child in this manner is just wrong. A time-out in the corner with an explanation of why he is there would have suffice.

    John MI

    p.s, I bet this kid would be in less trouble if he would have just flipped the teacher the bird.
     
  11. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    krakadawn

    "I'd like some accuracy regarding the report as 'expulsion' means out-not for a day but out whereas a suspension defines the number of days prior to return."

    Jim I believe that you are confusing the application of the words expelled and suspended. You are defining them as they apply to the school systems use of them not there actual meaning.

    The Media in this country uses the definitions of words to dramatize the situation. To their best advantage.

    With that being said no matter what you call it the punishment does not fit the crime(I use that term lightly and for lack of a better one)which seem to be the problem with zero tolerance. A huge lack of common sense.

    Bob Lawless
     
  12. dimapower

    dimapower Member

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    the administrator with no common sense. Sent my $.02

    irion.jack@yakimaschools.org
     
  13. krakadawn

    krakadawn TS Member

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    Bob,
    Couldn't agree with you more. The punishment absolutely does not fit the crime if the facts are straight-in fact in all my years pretty hard to recall any situation involving a K student that would be cause for that type of response.
    It appears that common sense was not very common in this issue but this would not be the first time I disagreed strongly with others in my profession.
    Jim
     
  14. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    krakadawn don't take me wrong or apply my comments as an insult to your profession.

    I do however feel that in this day and age common sense doesn't appear to apply in the public education system as a whole. They seem more intent on trying to teach our youth that Guns are Bad.

    Well I am just a little curious as to how the Zero Tolerance policies applied to the professor that shot and killed 3 and wounded 3 colleagues at Huntsville Alabama college yesterday. It certainly does make young Mr. Alvarez's action seem almost non-existent doesn't it. To my way of thinking intimidation is no substitute for education. Zero Tolerance is nothing more that a intimidation tactic. You will do it or else.

    It would appear that we are talking about a clear cut case of don't do as I do do as I tell you to do. To me that policy was never an answer to any problem.

    Bob Lawless
     
  15. krakadawn

    krakadawn TS Member

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    Bob,
    I don't think you are insulting the profession at all.I think stories like this highlite the problems that need to be dealt with in our current society and how it educates and how it supports young people growing up.
    I still work a few days offering support to young principals who are forced to deal with new legislation-legislation they may not support in the least but has been passed by our law makers.
    I've always disagreed with 'zero tolerance' for the exact reasons you mention. I would much rather be able to decide on the decision to be made based on all of the information at my disposal.I absolutely hate that kind of direction that is often given to us through legislated law. Yes, you are quite right....what did zero tolerance have to do with these recent shootings?

    In my humble opinion-not to dam much!

    But to give you another situation...in my home area in Ontario we recently have had several young woman go missing and several the victims of vicious home invasion/rape crimes.Well just this week Russ Williams, Colonel and Base Commander of Canada's largest military base(CFB Trenton, where all soldiers killed in Afganistan are flown into for repatriation) has been charged with their killings and our OPP are now looking at data that suggests he has been a serial killer with roots going back to Paul Bernardo who was Canada's worst serial killer.

    So I agree with your thinking....would zero tolerance have solved both these incidents-highly unlikely.

    Jim
     
  16. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Jim It is a pleasure to converse with someone from the education system that isn't afraid to speak the truth. I have enjoyed this little chat and wish you much success in helping these young principles in dealing with the new laws.

    You of course won't hold it against me if I don't hold out to much hope that we will get any positive developments in these matters. As I have a hard time viewing these politicians as anything more than Hypocrites. They appear first interested in protecting the schools and state and local governments from suit. The lives and lessons of the students seem to come last. Especially in light of the developments in Huntsville yesterday.

    Again I did enjoy our conversation

    Bob Lawless
     
  17. Haskins Bill

    Haskins Bill TS Member

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    Wow! Did not Robin Williams aka 'Mork' make such a gesture all the time on that TV show back in the late 70's? POS school administrators anyhow!
     
  18. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    State and local School Boards across the country have re-written history books to suit the liberal agenda. No surprise that the indoctrination of the youth of America has begun, what better age to begin then kindergarden? Isn't zero tolerance just another form of repression? My children are grown now thank God, but I was forced as a parent to fight the system on their behalf several times. The schools have become nothing more than a tyranical grist mill for the progressive movement, poisoning our childrens minds.

    Robert
     
  19. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Just a little update on the professor that shot and killed 3 and wounded 3 more at Huntsville Alabama College yesterday.

    Check this out so much for zero tolerance in the school systems.

    Bob Lawless
     
  20. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    DB,,,,this was before the progressives came to power and want to indoctrinate the kids....
     
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