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Kemen vs Caesar Guerini

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by mike-israel, Oct 8, 2009.

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  1. mike-israel

    mike-israel TS Member

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    Hope this proves to be an interesting thread.

    A number of years a go Kemen was being promoted as a poor mans Perazzi similar to the CG promotion today......not nocking either shot gun as I am sure they are great guns.

    BUT never see any Kemen threads or offers to sell on here.
    So maybe two question--how were/are they... why no hear abt them now.
    AS for the Caesar Geurini ---seems quite a few being bought and driven them cananyone offer a comparison.

    Why --thinking of buying one or the other for Bunker trap maybe in FEb, I can easily fly from Israel to either Brescia or Eibar buy a gd gun get it fitted and shoot some bunker at great ranges in Spain (maybe some Flyers ard Eibar)or N. Italy......Anyway dreams are cheap shotguns ain't..sounds like a plan though......MIKE
     
  2. BryceNZ

    BryceNZ TS Member

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    Mike,

    Why not go straight to Botticino Mattina, Brescia and get the real thing ??

    If you haven't visited the Perazzi factory it would be a great experience and you will end up with the preferred Olympic Trap gun fitted by the people that know best about fitting a gun for that discipline !

    Bryce
     
  3. brent375hh

    brent375hh TS Member

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    I always thought Beretta was a poor man's Perazzi. I wish I had a 682.
    You might want to think about where you might get parts and service in the future...
     
  4. mike-israel

    mike-israel TS Member

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    Both Bryce and Brent have two points Ihad thought abt---Perazzi would I ahould think be thousands (2 at least maybe more) more expensive but Brent and parts/repairs is agood point.

    Thought get an extra dropout trigger group would cover most problems.

    From here to Brescia/val de TRompe/Verona is abt 3hrs $350 flight.

    I will email some companies with my specs ---wonder what prices I can finagle direct.

    I had a paint ball range at a local waterpark and was thinking of setting up a trap/skeet range.Wrote to maybe a dozen companies .Everyone wanted to work with me--two Rizzinies, FAIR, Zoli, Gamba --went down a list of Val De trompe companies. MOst on here do not realize how many shotgun companies large small--cheap reasonable expensive --quality and so great. But it was fun.FAIR had a trap gun cost at abt $1200 /mrsp at $3000 so thats an idea of the deals that could be made --mind you I was talking 6 skeet 6 trap guns.

    Any comments even off the wall appreciated....still thinking on Malta vacation- maybe combine with the shopping trip. Cyprus/Malta shotgun friendly ---permit arranged at airport customs realy easy. MIKE
    $





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  5. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Mike,

    I've never shot a Kemen, but have laid eyes on a few. They look very nice and the fit and finish is A1.

    I do own a CG Magnus Limited 32" 12 ga Sporter. This gun points and shoots far better than any other gun I own. The trigger is absolutely wonderful and crisp. It weighs in at 7 lbs 9 ozs so recoil can be an issue for some. I primarily shoot 7/8oz and 1oz shells in mine with zero issues. 1 1/8 oz shells will get your attention if the gun isn't properly mounted. This is the first gun that I've bought that fit me from the get-go, no pad adjuster or adjustable comb. I would recommend taking one for a test drive.

    My next shotgun purchase will be a Magnus or Maxum trap combo. I'm just waiting to see if any deals happen here in the US.

    ss
     
  6. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Why buy a copy when you get the original. Forget the Keman or CG and buy a Perazzi. If you shoot bunker it's the only way to go. Kemens are rare on the bunker circut and the only CG I have ever heard of on a bunker field was the one that blew up on the Quantico range. I almost bought a Kemen a number of years ago but was talked out of it. The statement was if you buy a Perazzi today you will know what it's worth tomorrow but a Kemen???

    Tom
     
  7. BryceNZ

    BryceNZ TS Member

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    Very valid points on resale and parts availability.
     
  8. mike-israel

    mike-israel TS Member

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    wILL RETHINK----PERAZZI PROBABLY WAY TO GO---MIND YOU DT-10 COULD BE AN IDEA IF IN BRESCIA.

    PROBABLY COULDN'T DEAL (A DEAL) WITH BERETTA AS THEY HAVE AN AGENT IN HAIFA AND THEY WOULD GET THERE CUT...MIKE



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  9. BryceNZ

    BryceNZ TS Member

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    Mike,

    Have you been to the Perazzi factory before ?

    We were there about a year ago, it was a last minute decision, while holidaying in Europe, when my wife decided she had enough of trying to find leather boots that she could afford in Milan !!

    We jumped on the train back to Brescia and got a taxi from right outside the railway station, about 20 - 25 Euro if I recall right, not to far out of the main centre, very handy, the cabbies know where Perazzi is and we got a guy that was a shooter as well, nice chatting to him on the way out there.

    Our hotel desk guy in Milan told us that it was miles out of town and would need a rental car etc ..... nonsense, very easy to get to from the train station area of Brescia.

    If you have the opportunity and you appreciate the Perazzi's it is well worth the visit, even better if you are being fitted up for your own new gun !! I was just visiting, already had my beloved SC3 back home.

    Very interesting to see just how much hand work goes into each gun etc. Pattern test tunnel, fancy grade wood room, display guns of all grades that you can pick up and handle, the shooting simulator.

    Great time, even my non shooting wife enjoyed it more than shopping in Milan !!

    Bryce
     
  10. Hooligan

    Hooligan Member

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    Mike
    I agree with BryceNZ re the Perazzi factory. I own both a Kemen KM4 and an MX8 and MX3 Perazzi. A GG I cannot speak for. Some people say the Kemen is just a Perazzi
    "knockoff" however in the later built guns the quality and steel is superior
    in the Kemen. Quite a few Australian shooters like to fit Kemen bbl's to their Perazzis because of the rib soldering. As a gun and to shoot I prefer the Kemen
    ( custom built stock) however having said that I think that parts and service
    options in both the US and Aus for Kemen is pretty well non existent. I think I would stick with Perazzi if I lived in the US. CG is a nice looking and fair priced gun but Perazzi has a long standing reputation for quality and longevity.
    Barry
     
  11. sernv99

    sernv99 Active Member

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    if the CG and Kemen are cheaper, I would seriously consider those brands before a Perazzi. All three are fine, if the CG and Kemen were inferior, they would be out of business by now in an already saturated marketplace, don't ya think?
     
  12. mike-israel

    mike-israel TS Member

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    Servrn99---states pretty close to my thinking.

    Bob Schultz -who I respect as a straight dealer and shooter ---was a Kemen believer when Kemen arrieved on secne --what 8 years a go ---and is now a promoter of CG - so the big picture without ever holding either gun is -that they are amongnst the best .

    Price would be a consideration---Perazzi top gun granted--but their pricing has gone through the roof.

    Another observation--and Iwould apprecite comments good/bad. Most shotgun problems are trigger -yes/no- i.e parts kit a given with the Perazzis.
    Both guns in consideration have drop out trigger groups --so bought with a spare would satisfy nost immideate problems.If not user fixed (fairly handy)the broken trigger group could be sent to manufactourer /gunsmith for a bigger fix. Take into consideration a lot of Perazzi have a spair for above reason.
    Would you agree on above thinking.

    Anyway early days.....Barry i am in Israel so with any of the three--and any other maker parts and repairs are a consideration.....but Italy is only up the street--- 3hrs--$350 return --with option of shooting in Lonato to ck out repairs---dreams r cheap-----BEST MIKE
     
  13. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Mike, Bob Shultz did believe in the Kemen. He still does, but the exchange ratio now causes US pricing to be almost the same as Perazzi, and they don't sell. Bob's latest heart throb is the Blaser.

    I have looked at all the guns you mentioned many times, except for the Kemen (only once). The CG is definitely not in the same league. Neither are the DT-10 and 682 series. I used to own a 682 Gold E combo.

    Since you are a stone throw from Italy, go there and shoot what you are interested in. Then decide. To me, build quality and serviceability are important, but so is handling dynamics. When I graduated from Superposed and 682s, the SO-5, K-80 and Perazzi were the finalists. The K-80 is very popular where I live, about a one hour drive to their US service center. However, it feels like a log in my hands. Beretta service in the US is a joke. I settled on Perazzi because it handles well and is built well. You quite literally trip over Perazzi parts here, they are so commonly available. Plus you can fix most things that are likely to go wrong yourself. It is also extremely versatile.

    I have a friend who owns one Perazzi SC3 receiver and four barrel sets, plus stocks to match. When he wants to shoot Sporting, on goes the Sporting stock and the MX-8 barrels. That may be a little loony, but you get the idea. With a Perazzi, you can change your mind later and not get killed price wise.

    I recently sold the two barrel set that came with my MX-2000 and substituted a good used two barrel set with adjustable ribs. With a K-80 or SO-5, the gun would have to go back for fitting. The Perazzi barrels dropped right on and fit perfectly. I don't mean close, I mean perfectly. I had a Perazzi repair specialist check. I swapped the ejector rods between the old and new receivers and the ejectors were timed perfectly (I actually bought the entire gun and sold off all parts except the barrels, because that's all I really wanted). Other than that, the only thing I had to do was add spacers under the comb to accommodate the higher ribs.
     
  14. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    A couple of comments...

    ZZT is right on track. Perazzi has only gotten better. There is more and better service world wide for them that almost any other brand. There was an Aussie on here a few months back looking for Kemen parts as he was having trouble getting them down under.

    SVRN99.... You have a point. Kemen is almost gone here in the US and if some of the recent problems with CG are any indication they will be gone shortly. Perazzi just stays....

    Tom
     
  15. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    BT-99's were always called the poor man's Perazzi. As I recall.
     
  16. riflegunbuilder

    riflegunbuilder Member

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    I had a short and unpleasant relationship with a 687 Beretta. It slapped me in the face and all the money I threw at tha stock didn't seem to help. My wife liked it and now shoots it.

    I decided I needed a new gun, I had seen some Kemens thought they were neat. Spent a lot of effort researching them. I think they are nice guns. Today two Perazzis live in my safe and a third is on it's way to my house. Can't remember the last time I saw a Kemen.

    I have shot CG guns. If I couldn't swing the money for a Perazzi I would probably shoot a Guerini. For me I thought they feel better than a Beretta.

    To me your comparision is a Kemen is a similar gun to a Perazzi with little support. A Guerini is a gun in the food chain with Brownings and Berettas.
     
  17. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't there a Kemen for sale on this forum a couple of weeks ago?
     
  18. sernv99

    sernv99 Active Member

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    some Perazzi barrel sets will require a fitting. I had to get my new sporting barrels fitted to my gun when I opted for barrels with no center ribs. It is currently sitting in my safe, waiting for a Kolar MaxSC to replace it LOL...

    Kemen suffers not from poor quality, but from poor marketing. They came late to the game, expecting to grab a piece of the Perazzi market share with a gun looking like a Perazzi clone and costing almost as much. Does that make much business sense???
     
  19. mike-israel

    mike-israel TS Member

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    All great comments----re the BT-99.......HARD TO GET A SECOND SHOT OF IN TIME FOR A BUNKER TARGET-----I know your are talking build quality and agree with you for money great singles...mike
     
  20. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    I've shot a Kemen.. and liked them.. A few points are actually an improvment on Perazzi BUT.. Perazzi uses better steel..especially in their barrels.. I can get Perazzi parts..anywhere.. any time.. I find the Perazzi easy to maintain.. It's a no brainer for me.. Worst case.. is buy a good used Perazzi.. There are many really good deals out there if you look.. All Good.. Mike
     
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