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Kemen hulls

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by BELGIBOY, Jul 19, 2010.

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  1. BELGIBOY

    BELGIBOY TS Member

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    I was wondering if once fired Kemen hulls are a good choice for reloading. They are high base and look like they're sturdier than the cheap Federal I've been throwing away. Where I shoot, Kemen is sold in the clubhouse and subsequently a lot of the hulls are tossed away in the bins. I may be able to get a lot of them in a short amount of time.

    Steven
     
  2. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    The Federal T&F and Kemen are both fine hulls for reloading, and with either, you'll get a couple-3 good reloads.

    Use Federal Gold Metal data for either.

    Bob
     
  3. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    No matter what you reload them with, they HAVE to turn out better than they were when they were new!

    MK
     
  4. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    This has been hashed out many times before. Click the links below for a few previous threads on the subject. You can decide what yo want to do. My opinion is based on the observation that the basewads in these hulls have been known to migrate. I posted examples and contacted UEE and Kemen about the issue. Their response was less than stellar.

    Do a search and you can find a few dozen more threads on the subject. My answer is an ABSOLUTE NO! I would leave these hulls where they are and find something more suitable for loading.

    <a href="http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/sthread.cfm?threadid=213385" target="_blank">Click this link!</a>


    <a href="http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/sthread.cfm?threadid=215679" target="_blank">Click this link!</a>
     
  5. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    QS, he's going to be using a MEC, so he's re-seating the basewad, too when priming.

    What DID Kemen say to you?

    Bob
     
  6. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    goatskin

    I don't care WHAT kind of loader he would be using. I load on Mecs myself and won't touch these hulls. There is no such thing as "re-seating" the base wads. If they have moved, they have moved and can't be relied upon to stay put.

    Kemen and UEE, actually now Maxam Outdoors (formerly UEE), weren't at all concerned and they claimed it may have been a "few" shells that weren't quite up to par. The arrogance was overwhelming and the lack of concern was troubling in the least. I stopped looking at these hulls some time ago, but I was able to find many of them across many brands that Maxam Outdoors manufactured, over a long enough period of time. I wouldn't think it was just a "few" shells that got through. I think it's a bigger problem than they would be willing to admit. I sent them several examples of the affected hulls and never heard a word again. My first contact was back in 2007 or so. All they did was thump their chest about the 500 Million shells they load per year and who they load them for, etc. Worst of all, they said they don't check TS.Com. :) I still have the email exchange, but it's a long and boring read. The better one is an exchange with another member of this forum. I looked at that one recently and it was amazing just how badly someone can drink the Kemen Kool-Aid. Every time I comment on these hulls, they come out of the woodwork and try to put words in my mouth. I'll say it again. I have NEVER seen a base wad exit one of these hulls. I don't know of any firearm that has blown up or was damaged by one of these hulls. I have also NOT found one of these hulls missing a base wad. I just don't feel the need to tempt fate. So when the usual suspects start flaming away about the base wads falling from the sky and about all of the blown up guns, remember exactly what I posted here.

    That said, why waste good components on hulls with issues. Find a better hull and make a better shell. I personally won't load and fire something that I don't have faith in.
     
  7. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    While both Quack shot and goatskin have valid points, here are some others to reflect on. Kemen hulls are Euro type and will require the Euro type primers and wads as well. Both of these are of oversized type. Not to mention that you will need to change out your 8 point to a 6 points pre-crimp and final crimps as well. They still have the metal bases that resizes poorly and can have problems in some guns. Why some people don't spend the 4 cents a hull to reload STS's or Win AA's I don't know!!! Life's to short to load trash hulls. My 2 cents. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  8. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Jeff, while I have heard of loose primers in UEE hulls, I, personally, have never experienced one, and the only primers I use are Fed209A.

    I load rainbow hulls, and mix (Euro) papers among them (FedPaper are my 'bidness' bullets) and keep a 6-pt crimp-starter. I shoot them one-and-done, and even real ugly crimps ... well, crimp.

    Normally, I load hot & light, and shoot one-and-done. I have run batches of mixed loads across the chrony, and the ES & SD are tolerable ... ± 20-25fps, 'bout like new STS or AA.

    Bob
     
  9. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    QS, I know <i>EXACTLY</I> how that goes ... 'yeah, I know what Quack S-A-I-D ... but what he M-E-A-N-T was ...'

    Diff between hearing & listening, I suppose.


    Bob
     
  10. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Bob

    It happens every time. If it does again in this thread, I'll just may have to post the email exchange from 3 years ago where I called someone out on that. Still hasn't learned. It has something to do with a person's inability to accept facts and sound reasoning. They would like to believe something that is untrue, rather than accept they could be wrong. They see what they want to see. Must be the Kool-Aid!

    Believe me, if they were worth loading, I'd be there loading them. I just refuse to waste time and components on hulls that have issues. There are so many hulls that are better suited for loading, and those are what I choose to use.

    The primers originally used in these hulls are usually oversized when compared tro standard US 209 primers. It would require the use of an oversized primer to properly seal the primer pocket. A loose primer might allow gas to escape rearward, or even come up under the base wad.

    Carl
     
  11. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Oh, I know what you're saying abt willful a/o inattentive mis-construction.

    Like I said, I have had no issue with loose primers, but some folks say they have. Dunno, and I don't shoot autos or pumps.

    For my (play) purposes, rainbow Eurotrash hulls (but even there I toss Winchester Universals) and Vagner or CB/DR wads are just fine, but all my 'good stuff' is a different kettle of fish.

    Bob
     
  12. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Here we go again.... Quackshot and the world is raining base wads. I have loaded 1000"s of the Rio/Kemen hulls without problems. Use a NobleSport primer and wads designed for these hulls. They load great and have never encountered a problem. If you bnelieve QS your gin just blew up because you were just thinking about reloading these hulls! This much ado about nothing. Load them once and chuck them into the trash.

    TB
     
  13. BELGIBOY

    BELGIBOY TS Member

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    Never imagined that this would turn out to be a bit of a controversial topic. I tried using the search function on this before I posed the question but for some reason, running a search on Trapshooters.com freezes up my old laptop.
    I don't think I need another headache, even if it's only a potential one. I have Winchester AA hulls coming.

    Steven
     
  14. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Hey TBaby! Glad to see you up to your old tricks of putting words in my mouth! Did you read my prediction in my previous post? You are right on queue! Still drinking that Kemen Kool-Aid, I see. I say chuck them in the trash BEFORE trying to load them. Given the frequency of a base wad migration, why would a sane person desire to take a chance when more suitable hulls can be found for nothing as well? Must be a defect in someone's ability to reason. I am so glad you haven't had a problem in 1000's of loadings. All it takes is one to make up for all the rest.

    BELGIBOY

    There is enough evidence to convince me to stay away from these hulls. There are many people here that load them, and claim they have never had an issue. I don't need to tempt fate. You can decide, but my advice is to leave them on the ground.

    Goatskin

    What did I tell you? There are a couple more that need to come out to the party. TBaber was right on time.......Next!
     
  15. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Now this is the way I look at it. If you spend 4 cents a piece for the hull and load it 8 times that is l/2 a cent a piece for each loading, that 12 l/2 cents a box of 25 shells. If you only load the Kemans once and toss that means you have to pick up hulls after you shoot every time and pick them up off the ground while not picking up your empty's. For 50 cents its not worth picking up 100 empty hulls on the ground each and every time I shoot a event. But then again I guess some of us need the exersize. Just remember that the Rio's and Kemans are cheddite hulls and follow data for these hulls. Its your choice load what you want to. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  16. RJ

    RJ TS Member

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    Been there and seen that. I was the forth shooter on a squad several years back. The second shooter was braging that he got these hulls out of a 50 gallon dump can one a range. They were Fed plastic with the compressed base wads. How long they had been there and were they there during some of the rains we had just had? I don't know. They looked pretty good but after he shot his third shell at station 2 him and the guy to his right didn't feel very well after that. The shooters gun didn't look very good either. The barrel didn't split it just bent in several directions the chamber along with the trigger area exploded. It was a pump. Make, don't remember. But the two fellas were not feeling very well. The shooter lost his first finger on his right hand and the fella to his right got a face full of schrapnel. He was in the hospital I understood about two weeks. A piece of schrapnel went through his left cheek and imbedded in his throat. He could breath but not that great.
    Back in the early 80's I had a house full of AA's and a very few Rem's Remingtons had a plastic compressed base wad then, where AA's had no basewad. Now a days I have a house full of Rems and about 1300 AA's. This is because of the base wad that are in these. I have heard stories about AA's Pro and con but when these have been shot there gone. I was given these that I have but before I loaded them I looked em over with a magnafying glass. I'll shoot these through my breakopen over and under but not through my 1100's nor 870's.I also was loading and shooting the Fed papers until I fired one off and out came like a wad of paper. My daughter went to the car and brought me up three boxes of the then AA's that were the best like the Remington Nitro 27's and Nitro Golds & Gun Clubs are now. (Rich.inAZ.orinnameonly)
     
  17. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Now I am not saying that one should load junk. One should Only load good dry clean hulls no matter who made them. As far as the Kemens are concerned I have loaded some that were suspect according to one of our local guru's. He said the Base wad was displaced. could not see it myself but marked it and loaded it on my Mec 9000. It loaded and shot great. I still have the hull. Base wad is fine. These are great hulls to reload provided you know what you are doing and use the right components but isn't that true of any hull? These are no different. Pay attention and don't try to get 15 godzillion loads out of it an you will not have a problem although Quack shot thinks you will but I can not help but repeat what he said...."I'll say it again. I have NEVER seen a base wad exit one of these hulls. I don't know of any firearm that has blown up or was damaged by one of these hulls. I have also NOT found one of these hulls missing a base wad. " Again MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING.

    TB
     
  18. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    TBaby,

    You also forgot the part about having seen base wad migrations in enough hulls for me to consider it foolish to load them. There are enough hulls out there, that I don't feel the need to load something with a "known issue", no matter how clean and dry they are. If you want to load something and take the chance, by all means, have at it. I will likely not be shooting next to you. Hopefully, those that are, will be advised and know the risk. Anyone that would knowingly load and fire a hull that had a displaced base wad, is someone I'd be leary of. I don't care WHAT brand the hull was, I wouldn't do it. Life is short and I don't feel the need to make it shorter, or lose critical parts before my time. I also have enough respect for my fellow shooters, that I would think twice before putting them at risk. What you ARE saying is that "One SHOULD Load Junk". Any hull that has that many examples of base wad migrations IS considered JUNK in my book.
     
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