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Keep Your Own Registered Target Score-So What?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by oleolliedawg, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Recently it has been brought up that some clubs are allowing shooters to keep their own registered shoot scores. No score sheets or score keepers are provided and the clubs operate on an honor system. Shooters have resorted to counted their misses by dropping empty shells on the post and adding them later or using the memory system.

    Should these results be honored especially when it may affect placement on various All-American or state teams??
     
  2. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely not. When given the opportunity, cheaters will cheat. Those clubs should be reprimanded for allowing it.
     
  3. JT 27

    JT 27 Member

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    All-american team level shooters do not shoot at these small clubs. Cheaters will cheat, I have seen missed targets changed when several squad members would all call out dead. How you going to stop the 1%?
     
  4. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    JT27, what you're saying is not necessarily true. A pre-requesite toward making special category teams is meeting target requirements. I think you'll find with a little research that scoring is often significantly higher relative toward those individuals shooting at clubs that require both scoresheets and actual pullers!!
     
  5. Hitapair

    Hitapair Active Member

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    So what? So the rules prohibit it, that's what.
     
  6. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    What club(s) is doing this?
     
  7. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    Practice is one thing, registered is exactly that - registered - B&W on paper.

    Jay
     
  8. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    hitapair is correct. It is a rules violation. So it's OK to penalize the club but fine for meeting target requirements without any penalty for the shooters and the results considered valid?

    Joe, I believe you'll find out soon enough!!
     
  9. Ithaca$$$Grade

    Ithaca$$$Grade Active Member

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    Gentlemen, this has been going on for years, and in multiple states across the nation. I know for a fact that there are clubs in Minnesota, Iowa and Texas that have allowed shooters to score their own targets. I've talked to shooters that were on the squads that were doing it and when questioned the answer in some cases was " we can count, we don't need a scorer".

    When state ATA delegates were approached they were told, "file a complaint and go through the proper channels". If something like this would go through the ATA we would have gun clubs closed down, which we don't need. If the states would take care of it themselves that wouldn't happen.

    In Minnesota there has been multiple motions presented to the state association board to NOT count marathon targets for the state team average and they have failed to pass those motions. It was close last time, but missed by a couple votes.

    When I did my research I found that the violations were happening at marathon shoots. I feel that marathon shoots are good for the clubs that want to throw those targets, should count toward target requirements for state shoots and the Grand and target attainment. NOT for state team or All American status. Those 2 category's should be made up of the best shooters, not shooters that can shoot lights out at one club and without score keepers.

    Jim Walkowiak 8605023
     
  10. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Marathon shooting or not, the scores need to be recorded as they are shot by a qualified person. I seriously doubt any 'all american' caliber shooters are involved with writing in their own scores but the practice is not acceptable in our sport. If a club cannot provide the scores then the shoot shouldn't go on as a registered event.
     
  11. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Seems to me a couple of shooters got dragged through broken glass and severly reprimanded for doing that exact same thing ... Earl for one ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "So it's OK to penalize the club but fine for meeting target requirements without any penalty for the shooters and the results considered valid?"

    So tell us all how the shooter should that go to a shoot in good faith are responsible for the club that violates the rules. It isn't the shooters fault that the club chooses to break the rules.

    Jim you said,

    "If something like this would go through the ATA we would have gun clubs closed down, which we don't need. If the states would take care of it themselves that wouldn't happen."

    The rules that are being violated are ATA rules. The state has no business to "take care of it themselves" if the regulating association does nothing this problem needs to be addressed by the ATA. Without a formal complaint there is no grounds for action against the club to get this practice stopped.

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    So Bob, you feel it's perfectly fine to have shooters keep their own score as long as the club authorized it? Doesn't sound like you -does it??
     
  14. abbielew

    abbielew TS Member

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    Marathon Targets lead to Cheating Targets which then lead to State Team Target Requirements and on to the State Team for 10 years then too you know what.

    Oh Yes, you have 30 days to file a complaint with the ATA and it will
    get looked into and then swept under the RUG......

    That's how it works here in Minnesota anyway.

    WPT, guys like Earl are all over the place, broken glass too.

    Lew D. Boyko
     
  15. OldPshtr

    OldPshtr Member

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    Ithaca$$$. What clubs in TX? Have shot most and never experienced
    keeping own score - not even at a turkey shoot.

    Doyal
     
  16. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "So Bob, you feel it's perfectly fine to have shooters keep their own score as long as the club authorized it?"

    Dawg the rules say.

    SECTION VII


    OFFICIAL SCORING


    A. PROCEDURE


    1. The official score is the record kept by the referee/scorer on a sheet furnished him/her by shoot management. The referee/scorer’s decision on whether a target is dead or lost is final, subject to review only by the shoot committee or other governing body. The score sheet shall show the scores earned in the event or sub-event. The score sheet shall not be smaller than 8.5 inches by 14 inches (for four sub-event score sheets) in any tournament in which ATA trophies are provided. The larger format score sheet is recommended for all tournaments. During Handicap events the first sub-event of each score sheet shall be annotated with the yardage assignment of each contestant.

    This sub paragraph and 11 more that back it up. So Dawg who gave the club the authority to authorize the change in the ATA rules??? The only ways this will get straightened out is if someone files an official complaint with ATA. Or boycott the club. It is definitely an ATA problem. That means a official complaint there is no other way around it.

    Bob Lawless
     
  17. sterlingworth

    sterlingworth Active Member

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    Dawg: Whats the differince between keeping your own score,and a club that adjust's the targets for a "big dog" shooter? you know what I mean,we both seen it!...
     
  18. Gunnerx11

    Gunnerx11 TS Member

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    Fraud,Swindle,Deception, always present in all sports, even trap shooting.
    It happens every week, at almost every shoot, where ever two or more are
    gathered to dispatch a clay bird. They call it a honest mistake and the
    shooters keep returning to the same club that cheats. Makes me wonder.

    Just Sharing,
    Gunnerx11
     
  19. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Bob, as you know I know the rules. So you're saying these shooters keeping their own scores for years are totally unaware of the rules and should suffer no penalty? Somehow, I doubt it!!
     
  20. nomoloscofoso

    nomoloscofoso Member

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    I thought I heard something on Sun. afternoon at the Hogans, there is a new club opening, Ya do not even need to bring shells, just a pen!
     
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