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Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by prorider, Aug 17, 2008.

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  1. prorider

    prorider TS Member

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    Looks like the powers that are in charge,with all their great wisdom,and all their stupid rules are really taking care of trapshooting!According to the numbers everyone just loves these rules.How much worse does it have to get before someone does something to help the average shooter?!Man what about those 100s off the 27?Good shooting!Someone asked about how many major caps had been won,starting with last years Mo.fall handicap,until now by long yardage shooters.Just wondering why some of these guys with all the answers has not answered this persons question.
     
  2. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    You think because a few(including yourself) whine about the rules on this site, that the rules are wrong. You want the rules changed so that you(average shooter) can compete with the shooters who work hard to improve their skill level and are above average shooters. If you want to compete do it in your class and yardage group. If you think rules changes are going to make you competitive forget it, skill and talent will win out.

    If you think the rules are stupid why did you get into competitive shooting? Do you whine about rule changes in any other sports you might compete in?? You know the rules so make the choice to play or not. You join the game the game doesn't join you.

    Don
     
  3. hoosier

    hoosier TS Member

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    prorider, what rules are you talking about?
     
  4. prorider

    prorider TS Member

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    Rules were not like this when a bunch of us started.A couple of the rules I am talking about are the punch for money and the 2yrs no reduction after a 1yrd and a half punch.Dont tell me they dont matter because I personally know several people that dont shoot on account of this!Also Big Don look at last months Trap and Field Almost every major cap was won by a long yardage shooter! I am not trying to take anything away from them or trying to make them look bad,they deserve it!!But on the other hand the little guys deserve a fair chance to win also!A lot of shooters dont have the time or money to gain the skills to compete from long yardage!These guys stand back there and win all they can and are never penalized in anyway!!Is this fair??Be honest in your reply.
     
  5. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    BIGDON, nothing in the rules says that the Handicap events should be dominated by top back yardage shooters. I would think that all shooters believe 16 yd. targets are easily broken by most shooters but not everyone will ever be a Leo or Ray.

    By that token, the issue becomes quite obvious in this years' Grand American scoring!!
     
  6. prorider

    prorider TS Member

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    I still have not heard anyone of those 88% back fencers with all the facts answer that guys question about the caps won by long yardage shooters!!Where is Pat?Does anyone know?How about you Big Don go for it!!!
     
  7. Onceabum

    Onceabum TS Member

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    Amazing! It seems like someone always wants to change the rules so the best shooters don't win.

    Booger
     
  8. butcher

    butcher Member

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    That's why they call it competition, the good win and the others lose just like any other types of competition.
    It seems like trapshooters fall into two categories, those who compete and those who whine.
     
  9. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Pat's busy searching for the forest through the trees on this issue!!
     
  10. patch

    patch Active Member

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    To BIG DUM,the whole purpose of the handicap system is to keep everyone competitive.This is the intent whether it is golf or trap or whatever.The only difference is some people apparantly don't realize this or just want to keep the little people from winning.I bet if you left it up to the top shooters in the sport they would want it to go back to no money punches and they would like the average shooter to at least think they have a chance to win.This in turn would put more money into the sport and they would still win the majority of the shoots.It would just get more people shooting.If its about money,when someone wins so much put them in a pro class or let them put up more money and shoot against themselves.
     
  11. wdr-NY

    wdr-NY TS Member

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    I'm a traditionalist... I like the rules the way they are. Running 100 str8 from 27 yds is a prodigious task no matter what class of shooter you are. Don't make it easier for me to beat the good guys, make it harder... that way, when I do eventually win a major event--in a shoot-off against a world class marksmen--it will be that much sweeter.

    This reminds me of a story from a few years back. I may have my facts a little twisted here but...

    This involves a singles event (maybe the Championship singles) at the Southern Grand, My Dad, Ray Stafford and a really long shoot-off. If I remember correctly, this was 2001.

    Here's where it gets fuzzy... the old-man, Ray Stafford and five others are perfect after the event and they go to an evening shoot-off. After 50 birds its Dad and Ray Stafford still perfect and shooting off for the title. They go another 175 straight, each, and in the next 25, Dad drops a bird and loses to Stafford 249-250. Dad takes AAA and Stafford gets the hardware. I think this is a fair representation of what happened, but if I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me.

    The moral of the story, that must have felt unbelievable to go 200+ birds in a shoot-off with Ray Stafford--even in the loss, the feeling had to be incredible. And I'm willing to bet it wouldn't have been so sweet if Dad had gotten there by shooting from the 16 and Stafford from the 30 yd line.

    Jody, if you're on here and Dad is handy, could you confirm the details?

    Walker
     
  12. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Walker, I believe it's the opinion of most shooters that anyone can break Singles targets with minimal ability after a few years of dedication. Does that mean that all Handicap events must be won from the 27yd. line with 99's or 100's!!
     
  13. Ed Y

    Ed Y TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Next thing, you'll want to change the rules of golf so you can beat Tiger.
    Just work your way back to the 27 at your local clubs and then learn to break them from there so you can win at the big shoots.

    Ed Yanchok
     
  14. prorider

    prorider TS Member

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    wdr-NY,this is not tradition,these are new dumb rules!You say it is a prodigious task no matter what class of shooter you are,it d--n sure is for the common shooter who maybe can afford to shoot a couple thousand targets a year!!!By the way,still no answer about the question!!!
     
  15. wdr-NY

    wdr-NY TS Member

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    A little data...

    In the 11 combined handicap events at the Florida State Shoot and the Southern Grand this year, 10 were won from the 27 yd line.

    8 of 13 were won from the 27 yd line at the Keystone, PA State and PA Grand.

    6 of 9 were won from the 27 yd line at the OH State and Buckeye Classic.

    3 of 9 were won from the 27 yd line at the Grand.

    27 of 42 (64%) were won from the 27 yd line in the above events.

    That is less than 2/3 being won by the best shooters shooting from the furthest distance. Here's a stat for you... the handicap system works!!! Because the best shooters only win the biggest money events 64% of the time.

    All data from RJStuart.com

    Walker
     
  16. prorider

    prorider TS Member

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    Cal-6 out of 7.Ill.4 out of 5. Kan.-3 out of 5. Oh.-3 out of 4. Okla.-4 out of 4.If memory serves me right at Mo. last fall they won every event except one!!I also am almost positive they won virtually all events at several satelite grands.All these wins and not one penalty!!Why do the other guys get penalized and these guys get nothing?!
     
  17. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    If the 27 represents the best shooters why wouldn't you expect them to win. Why don't you become the best at your yardage group or class and then you can work on the whole event. The money punch was put in the keep shooters from abusing the rules and other shooters wallets, as was the 2 year rule on certain punches. It seems you object to the rules that were put in to protect the sport from the abusers, if anybody quits over these two rules they are suspect to me.

    If you are putting your ability up against the best and are betting on it, you are either very confident or very foolish. Good Luck.

    Don
     
  18. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    "What can be done to help the average shooter"?

    Some people just don't get it. Please refer to Webster's for the definition of average. The only help an average shooter needs his his/her time and committment to getting better. Some people will never get any better than average due to many reasons which they don't admit to, but nonetheless, they'll always be in the bottom of the pack.

    The "Average Shooter" needs to adjust to the fact that thay may or may not win something within their own class and quit trying to downgrade (dumbdown) the current levels of competition.

    Curt
     
  19. Pipe Layer

    Pipe Layer Well-Known Member

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    The A.T.A is taking the approach that most of our country is taking. If you can't or won't work hard enough in what you do we will make it easier for you. Happens in the school systems , work places and for the folks that just plain won't work!

    We now have a 18 yard line, you can get three reductions in one year.The next thing you will see is little league baseball moving the pitchers mount up for kids that can't reach the plate and a bigger ball for the ones that can't hit.We can't have people that work hard reaping the rewards for their work!

    I do understand that some of us, me included , are never going to be top shooters.I do also understand that I will never win the Olympics but I sure am not going to wine hopeing to get it changed so I can.

    There will always be folks that are better at what they do than us and that's just a fact of life.It should be a honor to be able to compete against these people.

    Terry Dean

    Kentucky Delegate
     
  20. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    So Ed, you won't be happy until all events are won from the 27yd. line. By the way, when's the last time you did the same!!
     
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