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K-gun firing pins

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Doug39, Oct 18, 2009.

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  1. Doug39

    Doug39 TS Member

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    Has any one had problems with STS or Gun Club factory loads causing excessive wear on K-80 firing pins, resulting in occasional misfires? A friend was told by a Kreighoff dealer the Gun Club primers were harder than others and caused the misfires in his gun. I have 10 flats of gun Club and 10 of STS. Would hate to develop a firing pin problem with them. And no I will not send them to anyone to "run a Test"!!!!
     
  2. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    the newest gun clubs use sts primers, same as in the sts shell, and same that we reload with. Guess remington didn't find it cost efficient to inventory multiple types of primers. If it looks like an sts primer (all brass color from edge to edge) then its the same thing. They did use a two tone primer a few years ago.
     
  3. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify, the top guns are the same as estates (both made by ATK, aka Federal). Gun Clubs are made by Remington. All 3 are top quality, and in my opinion, in the 12ga and 20ga, close enough to STS quality that I can't justify the price difference...
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Doug- I have found that my K-80 will not shoot some discount shells. With Gun Club shells, I can count on one or two per box that will not fire. This is most likely a problem with my gun and not the shells. With RIO shells, only about 5 per box shoot in my gun. With Top Gun or Estates, I have no problems. The problems my gun has with Gun Club seems to occur in several other guns. I do not know why this happens. If I were to make an unsupported guess, it would involve primer seating depth or the metal used to make the primer.

    For a company to make a less expensive shell, either the cost of the components or the profit margin must be cut. Companies are not eager to cut profit margin.

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. BBMAX

    BBMAX TS Member

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    Good morning Doug -

    As Pat Ireland clearly states certain ammo doesn't work in a K-80. I took my K-80 to Ottsville and asked them to put a longer firing pin in the gun. They said no and pointed out that the cheaper ammo doesn't fit into the barrel properly. A simple test is to take your barrel (before you put the gun together) and drop a shell into the barrel and see if it fits "flush" or drops about 1/8 of an inch lower into the barrel (because the cheaper ammo has less of a metal base). This causes the shell not to go off as the firing pin has to travel a little bit more to hit the primer. Answer - get ammo that fits into the gun as Pat states. Good shooting Doug.

    Bruce Maxwell
     
  6. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    BBMax, I think you might have gotten carried away with the 1/8 of an inch lower figure. The rim thickness on a 12 gauge shell is approx. .050 and the rim diameter is approx .875-.880 The chamber diameter of a 12 ga. is .812 at the rim area. You might see a shell .010-.015 deeper in the chamber but never 1/8 of an inch. If you have a shell that head spaces .010 too deep coupled with a primer that .010-.015 set too deep, you have a good chance the pin will not ignite it.
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Toolmaker- 0.0125 is 1/10 of 1/8 an inch. The difference between 1 and 10 is just a 0.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Ladies Man is right.

    I learned my lesson after ruining a firing pin on a K-80 with that French crap.

    Don Verna
     
  9. Mike Hessong* (MH*)

    Mike Hessong* (MH*) Active Member

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    dverna and Ladies Man,

    I found out the same thing you, I tried the Cheddites and the first 5000 of them, I had only a couple that "pierced" and back-flashed over my firing pins, but on buying a second brick of 5000 (the LAST ones I will ever buy), I must have started having 2 or 3 out of every box of shells I loaded. I had at least 2 firing pins changed out because they became so eroded by the back-flash of the piercing of the primers. When I just had the annuals done on my Krieghoffs during the World Skeet Shoot in SA, I had 2 more firing pins replaced. From now on the few additional dollars for Winchester or other premium primers will be all I run thru my guns.

    I know some K-gun shooters might not have this problem, but for me, it's just not worth it.

    Mike* (MH*)
     
  10. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    I have shot over 15,000 Cheddites through my Bretta, and have had no problems.



    tony
     
  11. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    Don Baughman told me on my trip to Ottsville last year that they were seeing a lot of chipped firing pins from Rem GC shells.

    I shoot them in practice, especially in the dead of winter, as do a LOT of my friends and none of us have experienced this problem.

    I do agree that you will get more fail to fires with GC than STS, but I have seen this happen in all manner of guns and do not think this is related to the K80 in particular. Its not many, but that's one reason why I don't shoot them in competition.

    Cheers
     
  12. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Baron- The current edition of the Gun Club shells (in 12ga at least, dunno about 20) use the same primer as the STS shells. They used to use a different primer (the one that was 2 tone), but I guess they found it wasn't economical to inventory 2 different kinds of primers. I've gone through 22 boxes since mid-august, and not a single misfire (did have one weird one that put a THICK streak of plastic down the inside of the barrel, but i never had one that sounded funny or anything, guess the wad was a little off or something)... I'll probably shoot Top Guns in the 12 and 20 next year just because I can get them cheaper than I can Gun Clubs, but I would not hesitate to shoot either. My kolar whacks the primers on the gun club as hard as any other primer (however, I can't shoot Fiocchi or Wolf primers from my gun, go figure).
     
  13. cbxchris

    cbxchris Active Member

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    I also have seen cheddite primers ruin K80 firing pins. I myself could not shoot fiocchi due to pierced primers. I have thousands upon thousands of wolf/PMC through it without any problems.
     
  14. CharlesK80

    CharlesK80 Member

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    My '07 K80 TS had a failure to fire 1:50 ratio w/ new Rem Top Gun w/ old style two-tone primers purchased in '07. When reloaded with Win primers, no failure to fire. I conclude it was the primer.
     
  15. KennyRay

    KennyRay Active Member

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    Took my K-80 TS to Don in Ottsville, Pa. last year with the same problem, one or two missfires per hundred. I had just bought the gun used. Previous owner had it approximately 3 years and I believe he used discount shells.

    Don told me that he believed they changed something in the primers which made them harder and that they were damaging firing pins. He replaced both of mine and I've been shooting Federal Top Guns & Remington STS & Nitor 27's. Have not had another misfire with the new pins.

    I have talke with many K-gun owners who are experiencing the same problem.
     
  16. chipdaddy

    chipdaddy Member

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    So the message here is don't shoot the French primers or cheap shells is that correct? I was just about to buy a Kreighoff, but now I don't know, I do know that a Kolar will pierce the Cheddite primer but I was hoping to seat these primers a little deeper and maybe get away from the problem. I've never had the problem with my 1100 or 391. Expensive guns need expensive shells, or perhaps selling the five cases of Cheddites would be the way to go and buy Winchester or Federal primers. Ideas? Jerry
     
  17. Chipmaker

    Chipmaker Active Member

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    So if your having the trouble with the "K" guns piercing the primers, then you would take the same shells and run them thru say a Remington, or a Browning or CG etc and it does not pierce them would one not believe that a firing pin protrusion is the real problem and not the primers fault???
     
  18. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Chipdaddy,

    I assume you have shot a number of high end guns and decided the K-80 was the best for you. Why would you buy a $15k gun that you do not shoot as well to save $30/5000?

    We buy $15k guns to win $100 trophies and try to save $.15 a box on shells. What in the wide world of sports are we thinking!

    Don Verna
     
  19. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Don- that is just the way trap shooters think and there is nothing wrong with it. I believe that the rather wealthy shooters will do things to save a few cents here and there. That is how they became wealthy.

    Pat Ireland
     
  20. chipdaddy

    chipdaddy Member

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    Pat, well said! Jerry
     
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