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Joe's guns

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by joe kuhn, Feb 15, 2008.

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  1. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    The sequence is picture/caption.

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    Gun 1. Nearly all guns have a barrel that is eye level. A few are cheek level. I wanted to see if it was possible to shoot with a barrel that was shoulder level. That summer I shot a 99 and a couple of 98s, so the answer is 'yes'.

    Good points about the gun: Low barrel gave a clear view all the way down to the trap house. The full pistol grip gave me the opportunity to see just how short I could go with the LOP. Since the thumb is out of the way, you can go very short and give yourself a tight frame to pivot to the target with. Both features are lost on nearly all shooters because no one has ever done it.

    Bad points: The metal stock always needed tweaking from the effects of recoil. Comb was always pivoting on the stock tube, or the tube was loose on one end or the other. Bolt in butt pad assembly broke once. The Holosight red dot stays on the target even if you move your head, gulp, off the comb. Took a real beating on ts.com for this gun in general.

    Credit to Johnny of Johnny's Custom Brass for the hardware help.

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    Gun 2. Subbed in a Remington 58 for the 870. Not much different. Less recoil. Hey Tron.

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    Gun 3. Started working with a whole different design. This is the cheek level design and put my hands where they fell.

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    Gun 4. H & R made it happen. Learned that the fore end hand needs some tightness to it or the gun will feel like it’s falling out of your hands. Other hand too. Ever seen that far down a bore?

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    Gun5. Accesorized version of the wood model. I might as well include this picture. If I don’t, Foggie will. Hi Fog! Hey Ross.

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    Gun6. Sideways view of the H & R. Toned down accessories.

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    Gun7. Early attempt at wood model above.

    Problems: Red dot washed out completely on sunny days. Barrel was a little above the stock so when it was tipped on it’s side the recoil moved the gun into the face. My shop not equiped to make the correct receiver. Didn't shoot it enough to really evaluate the overall design.

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    Gun8. Red dot is still high enough over barrel to have a clear view. Shot a lot of straights with this gun. Recoiled less than the 870. Might try a Doctor red dot someday.

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    Gun9. Finally got rid of the Holosight. Kept the short LOP and full pistol grip. Switched to wood which is remarkably resilient. Gun is a Mach One. Took second high overall in my home club’s fall wobble league. Shoots well. I love this gun. Balance point is in front of trigger guard. Helps me stay centered over front foot.

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    Gun10. Broke the pistol grip off so connected the grip to the rest of the stock.

    Gun is currently at Dennis' shop for copying to wood. Requested outline of coon to replace diamond on fore-end.

    Through all of this many of you ts.com guys have been supportive and helped quite a bit. Thanks.

    Thanks to Coach for the focus.

    It was fun looking back. Time to move forward.

    Joe
     
  2. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    Looks like something put together in Compton or South Central LA!

    Morgan
     
  3. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Nope. Right here in IL.
     
  4. max trap

    max trap Member

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    Joe, COOL STUFF...
     
  5. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    I sent a graphic of a coon face. Hope Cindy can work with it.
     
  6. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Here's a nice one.
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Joe- I like your experimental attitude. Nice Coon.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Pat,

    Thanks. The compromises remind me of Rollin's theme: everything is connected.

    I want a gun that conforms to me rather than the other way around. So the recoil pad on the Mach One is way low, but this gives the recoil something to pivot on. So I've put extra weight in it. It was originally set up with a higher pad, but I had to raise my shoulders to come up to it, which I find hard to duplicate every time. So I've got a heavier gun that comes up and fits perfectly. So be it.

    The pistol grip is a wonderful handle, but in wood it's fragile. So it's connected to the rest of the stock and becomes a 'tear drop thumbhole'. This gives me a place to put a palm swell on the right side, but the hand tension on the pistol grip without a palm swell works really well at the range. I could change this by removing that palm swell and actually hollowing out the right side some. Then I'd loose the support of the palm swell. It fits my right hand perfectly and allows me to focus on the target.

    There's some conflict in this last paragraph, but the truth be known, it was time to get the finishing work done over the winter. It'll work just fine.

    What I have, I'm going to shoot for 2008.
     
  9. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Pat,

    The whole idea is to go beyond limits and see what happens.

    The tendancy is to bring the thumb down so the hand is straight back from the trigger. You want to be pulling everything into that trigger and vertical grip and shoulder. Straight back, not holding onto the top of a tube of wood which is an exageration, but makes the point.

    You see this straight back pull in Dennis' latest guns where it leads to a sharp crook in the wood so the shooter can get the thumb down. I'm not attached to conventionally laid out stocks, so I went to a full pistol grip like in that second to last pic. The thumb is down - it's perfectly behind the trigger. The stock goes over the thumb and back to the face and shoulder. It ain't pretty, but there's alot of function in it.

    Once you get the thumb out of the way of your nose you can shorten the LOP until the gun stops moving forward as you come up with your hand to hold it. This isn't obvious in a normal gun mount, but in a fitting mount, it is. Mount the gun and lower your trigger hand. Then bring the trigger hand up the the gun. The gun will move forward slightly as you grasp the grip. Focus on the gun's movement forward. It will be slight but it is there. That forward movement will go away as the LOP is shortened until you find a sweet spot. That's short enough.

    Now we've got a hand straight back from the trigger, an easy pull straight into the shoulder, a thumb out of the way of the nose. There's an overall fit with the body that pivots like a tank. It's hard to describe the feeling when this final gun is mounted. More pics are needed.
     
  10. sptnclays

    sptnclays Member

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    Edited for content.
     
  11. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Joe, I like the way that the butt end of your stock comes that far down. I have a long neck, and I recently dropped the pad on my gun down with a Jones adjuster. Then I shot a friend's Kolar combo...it had a stock that seemed more paddle-like, and I felt that I wouldn't need an adjuster on that gun. I'm not getting any rotation when I shoot with the Jones adjuster on my K-32, but I would like the stock to come up even higher (not the comb, as it is at the right height to see my beads. I am considering a custom stock at some point.

    Please keep posting your pics and progress for us. They are quite interesting.
     
  12. admiral Art

    admiral Art TS Member

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    oooh spclays, the MODS gonna spank you. Best for you to delete that post most riki tik.
     
  13. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Recurvey - Yeah, I don't want to be shrugging my shoulders each time I mount the gun. That's just one more thing to have to duplicate perfectly each time. This way, it just fits - all attention forward, pull...

    Biff - every since Ross put all those raccoons on my wood model (see first post) the coon has been my 'mascot' you might say. And with a last name like mine, it fits. I don't mind it at all. It's kind of a nice identity thing.

    Joe
     
  14. ccw1911

    ccw1911 Member

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    Just to clarify for those not here at the time, Joe was having problems with racoons in his home at the same time he started experimenting with stock designs. I like to play around with photoshop and thought it would be funny to add a few to his try stock picture and kinda got carried away. I think the racoon has become his mascot ever since. Ross
     
  15. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Hey Ross! Great to hear from you. That picture makes me smile to this day. Glad you posted it.

    How many coons are in that pic? (answer: 9)

    Just to set the record straight it was my neighbor who had coons in his attack when I posted my usual request for help here. Since then I've also asked for help: Installing a dish washer, dealing with building code violations, lawn mower problems, faucet install...

    This is what makes ts.com so great. Help from friends is just a post away.
     
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