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It's not the arrow it's the Indian, or is it?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by senior smoke, Apr 13, 2013.

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  1. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Wauwatosa Wisconsin
    Hello:
    If you have been in this sport for any length of time I am sure you have heard sayings like it's not the gun, it's the shooter.

    But on the other hand, how many of you have had guns that you just could not shoot worth a darn for some unknown reason? If the gun fits you, you should be able to break targets consistently. But we all know guns are like shoes, some just feel right just out of the box.

    I remember one time, I purchased a Remington 3200 trap gun that fit me absolutely perfect like a glove. It had left hand cast, as I am left handed, and this gun felt so good to shoulder, just the perfect gun, I thought. Truth be told, I could not hit more than a 18 per round with that gun.

    How many of us have tried to make a gun work only to even go as far as doubting your own shooting ability? We suddenly did not forget how to shoot.

    Trapshooting is not meant to be so difficult that shooting turns into a nightmare. If your not a pro and make your living shooting trap, realize that not every brand gun is a gun that you can shoot well.

    In every sport there are pros that endorse specific equipment. Many of us feel if I had that same equipment as so and so, I will be a better shooter. Reality is what works for them may not work for you.

    I often said if I had a J.C. Higgins that I could shoot well I would use it in tournaments. So in conclusion, I feel it's ok to change guns if it's just not working out for you if you have given the gun the proper amount of time. The proper amount of time depends on you, and only you will know when it's time to unload the gun.

    Is there any one out there that agrees, that some guns even if they fit you, for some unknown reason, you just could not break good scores with it.

    Any one ever have a gun like I just described, it felt good, but you just could not shoot it well for some unknown reason?
    Steve Balistreri
    Wauwatosa, Wisconsin
     
  2. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,118
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It's the Indian for sure, but it helps if the arrow was straight.

    My first trap shoot was using a very nice ASE 90, I got 15 with it. Couple weeks later, I got my first 20 with a 1100. A year later after many, many 23 and 24s with my new MX-8B, I got my first 25 with a friend's MX-15.

    Nowadays, if I can't get 25s from a gun in couple month, I'll sell it.
     
  3. Birddogfella

    Birddogfella Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    382
    Location:
    central Virginia
    You are soooo right.
    I can shoot trap with 'most any shotgun... as long as it is a NIKKO with 30" barrels. I think the model is the 5000.
    shoot safely.
    olde pharte
     
  4. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
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    3,335
    Location:
    Oregon
    I am a collector of shootable shotguns. I rarely shoot the same gun for two weeks in a row. I have lost track of how many different guns I have run 25 straight with. The Browning that I used to break 100 straight is in the back of the safe somewhere. Give me a gun and a few shells, so I can see what the trigger feels like, and see where it shoots, and I am good to go. How many guns do you need? Just one more. Mark
     
  5. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    There was a time that I had so many guns that I forgot how to shoot some of them. Here's my rule of thumb about purchasing a new gun.

    When I purchase a new gun I give my best friend my old gun to hold for me for 6 months. Under no circumstances even if I beg him, do not return my old gun to me.

    After 6 months with the new gun, if I still can't shoot it to my satisfaction I will sell it and get my old gun back from my friend. Since 1970, I have done this and it works.

    I found out the hard way not to sell your old reliable gun, than find out that you can not shoot the new gun. Then in most cases you either can't find your old gun to buy back, or someone won't sell your old gun back to you.

    To me this is the most complexing thing that happens to shooters in general. You will see a gun in the rack and shoot it. You shoot the gun like Bonillas in his prime and as soon as you pluck down the green backs you can not shoot this same gun. If I had an answer to that question I'd probably be considered a smart guy.
    Steve
     
  6. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    Steve, that isn't the guns fault, it's a shooter problem.

    The best aiming Indian ever can't hit crap with a crooked arrow.

    Your way more generous with an ill gun for breaking clays than I ever was!! In six months of shooting, that's a TON of dollars down the tube and wasted as well as time!!

    Hap
     
  7. bluedsteel

    bluedsteel Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
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    525
    Some have referred to what is often called the "new gun phenomenon". You know the story: as has been mentioned above, you borrow someone else's gun, and you shoot it better than your own gun. Then you borrow it for a second round (or string of shots), and again you shoot it better than your own.

    So, you plunk the down the money and buy a gun like the one you borrowed, and immediately, or after a short period of time, your scores are back where they were with the old gun.

    One explanation I have heard for this is that when you are shooting an unfamilar gun, your mind is more in "the present", and you focus on what you are doing. Perhaps this is true. I am not sure.

    In any event, if you can discipline yourself to wait about 60 days (sometimes less), the desire for the new gun will leave you, and you will usually have improved a bit with your old gun, or given up entirely.

    Either way, you can save yourself a fair amount of money.

    bluedsteel
     
  8. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    With rare exception, it is always the Indian... unless you bought a piece of $hit... most guns guns are inherently as accurate as a shotgun can be...

    How many times do we see guys pick up a buddies gun, or ask a stranger to try their gun with a few shells and break 'em all... then you fall in love... then buy the gun and the first round or two go great, then you start thinking about how you shot and your game went in to toilet... and the gun goes on the rack with a sale sign on it...

    Jay
     
  9. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    I had a SKB O/U Int Trap Model 5700 it kicked like a mule i flinched so bad with it that my scores were bad. I got rid of it and went back to my 1100 and the scores raced back up.
     
  10. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Northampton PA
    If the gun fits reasonably well and shoots where you're looking you're likely a member of the 95% group which will never seriously challenge Leo!!
     
  11. bossbasl

    bossbasl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
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    808
    A couple of years ago I wanted to start shooting doubles again and happened onto what I know to be a fabulous high grade shotgun: Krieghoff UlmP Trap/Pigeon with gorgeous English walnut with dimensions that were spot on, 30" IM/F. This gun was no longer imported to the USA because KI didn't find many takers at near $27K. How could I go wrong, I thought, to be able to find an as new example for slightly over $5K? Well, after shooting it a few rounds and not being able to find my heinie with both hands, I discovered the reason for the dismal scores was that the gun was just way to muzzle light and I was blowing past the targets. Admitting I would never shoot the UlmP worth a hoot, I traded into a Perazzi Mirage that is the answer for me. When I asked myself "was it worth it to own and shoot an UlmP, detachable sidelock gun of exquisite quality"? The easy answer is yes. It also answered the arrow vs. Indian question. Although the UlmP is one the finest O/U "arrows" ever produced, this "Indian" simply could not put it to good use. Lesson learned. Lyle
     
  12. jdsfarms

    jdsfarms Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    1,507
    For me it's the Indian I can pick up pretty much any gun from an 870 to a P or k gun with any load and after a couple boxes shoot 23's or 24's with it,Those last 1 or 2 targets are all in my head.Jerry
     
  13. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    A good Indian w/Good Arrows cannot be beat.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  14. broadway john

    broadway john Well-Known Member

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    Dec 23, 2012
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    1,159
    Location:
    New Jersey and New Hampshire
    I am one of those really "lucky" people that can't hit anything no matter what I shoot. So in my case it definitely is the Indian. Doesn't matter how good the arrow is.
     
  15. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    Bought a nice SKB combo. Adjusted the settings same as my old BT to get the same picture. Guess what,it shot different. Never could figure it out. Kept it too long. Changing guns for me is a dissaster!
    Clyde
     
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