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ITA Update - Notes from meeting - AIM & Pat Traps

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by jevoliva, Jan 19, 2009.

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  1. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    A synopsis of the last BOD meeting of the Indiana Trapshooters Association:

    1) Youth shooting – the BOD voted to support the AIM program in the same way that we did SCTP in years past. The ITA will not support SCTP monetarily in 2009, but the BOD supports SCTP to have a State Championship. <BR>
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    2) 2009 AIM state championship will be held separately from the Indiana State Shoot at a date yet to be determined. IGC has tentatively indicated that they will host the AIM Indiana State Championship. <BR>
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    3) A letter will be sent to ITA member gun clubs encouraging them to set up Big 50 programs to allow the AIM shooter to register 300 targets before the State Championship as required by AIM.<br>
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    4) Youth shooting shell raffle will be re-instated for 2009. Raffle tickets will be sent out to gun clubs by the end of Feburary. <BR>
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    5) We had a discussion with IGC manangement about improvements to the club and grounds. A list of improvements were approved by the BOD, with big ticket item requiring bids to be presented and a vote by the BOD. All smaller ticket item (list defined by the BOD) will be approved by the President of the ITA. <BR>
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    6) Target fees for the 2009 State Shoot have been increased to $28 <br>
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    7) A plan was presented to the BOD to modify the existing traps that need modification to allow the installation of PAT traps. The BOD voted unanimously to proceed with this plan. <br>
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    8) With the traps modified, the ITA will need to procure PAT traps for the State Shoot. A letter will be sent to the member gun clubs by the President of the ITA requesting assistance in providing PAT traps for the State Shoot. This can either be in the form of “renting” a trap from a club and/or securing donations from member shooters of the club to allow the ITA to purchase the traps. The ITA currently uses 18 program traps + 1 practice trap for the State Shoot. Phillip Baker has indicated that we can rent his four traps he presently has at IGC. Therefore, we will need to have at least an additional 14 traps and the BOD would also like to have at least one additional trap to use on the practice / make up field. The BOD is positive that we will be able to meet this goal. <br>
    <br>

    Let me know if you have any questions.

    John
     
  2. juststartin'

    juststartin' Member

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    John,
    With the planning taking place for Pat Traps to be acquired for the IGC, is it safe to assume that plans for the Ceraland property is on hold? If so, are there any camping upgrades planned for IGC? Thanks in advance...Tom
     
  3. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    No, we are still progressing with the CERALand project. The cost to modify the traps for the 2009 state shoot will be more than covered by the savings in trap help pay. Since we will have to get the PAT Traps when and if we move to CERALand, the BOD went ahead and voted to start this project now, since after the state shoot the cost of the modification will be a wash. We wanted to move swiftly to start throwing the best possible target ASAP and feel that changing to PAT traps will help with credibility of the shoot.

    As for CERALand, both BODs are working in conjuction to do a moe detailed site plan and cost projection to see if we can agree to the final terms. As of now, we are still projected to be there for 2010, but if we run into any more delays, it will be more probably that it will be 2011.

    No camping upgrades are planned. However, improvments are being done to club house and other items on the property.

    Thanks,

    John
     
  4. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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  5. Superdog1

    Superdog1 TS Member

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    In my humble opionion, the decision to move the AIM tourney out of the state shoot is the wrong message to the young shooters. I wish this discussion was brought to the members.

    Tom Antczak JR.
     
  6. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Tom, why was the AIM state shoot separated? The state shoot is all set up, do it then! Make sense?
     
  7. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    First reason to move it would the ability to have the AIM State Shoot on a weekend. One of the biggest complaints we had head about the having AIM/SCTP during the state shoot was the fact that it was now held on a Tuesday. Since we could no longer handle having that many shooters on Saturday of the State Shoot, we thought it would more beneficial to move the AIM/SCTP to it's own weekend.

    Second, in doing so, it opens for both AIM AND SCTP to have a state championship on the same weekend. The BOD didn't want to block SCTP altogether in the State of Indiana, so having a weekend where AIM could be held on one day and SCTP on another made sense. Marving Lester had confirmation from several coaches that regardless of our decision, the would still have teams in both programs. Moving the youth state championships to thier own weekend would allow maximum particiaption in both events.

    Third, trying to run SCTP on Tuesday of the state shoot in the last past has been a logistical nightmare. We had discussed several ways to improve that for 2009, but in the end, we felt that any system we would use would cause further separation of the Youth shoot from the "regular" part of the State Shoot. Tom, I understand that you feel that the kids need to be connected to the state shoot, but I would disagree. In speaking with IL, KY and TN SCTP directors, their attendance for the SCTP state championships and the kid's general feeling about the shoot increased when they moved the shoot to it's own weekend. Also, these states saw an increase attendence at their state shoots because of the spill over effect. In the past, when we have had it with the state shoot, the kids generally get pushed aside -- regarded mainly as a nusiance during that day, as you well know. I do not know of a way to fix that. With the current system that we have, there is no good way to handle the shooters that wants to shoot on Tuesday and then the rest of the week. The only solution was to hold the Youth State Championship as a seperate registered shoot on the same day -- in doing so, there will be a different line for classification, squadding, cashiering, different score printouts etc. In essence, we would have completely seperated them from the state shoot on paper, just not physically. If we move the shoot(s) to thier own weekend, they will receive move attention than what they have had in the past and we can more properlt recognize and celebrate these young shooters.

    Lasly, the thought was going to be to have the AIM state championships after the Indiana State Shoot... this would give the shooters extra time to get all of their registered targets in before their state championship and, if they wanted to, come up to the State Shoot and get some targets there. Now that the SCTP has announced their National Championships will be so early in July, I don't know if it would be possible -- or we juts have seperate shoots for AIM and SCTP. That will be discussed at the next BOD meeting with Phillip Baker.

    Tom, I kept your discussion with me at the State shoot in mind during this decision. We just have overwhelming infromation from three nearby states that tell us moving the shoot to it's own weekend had a very positive effect on the state youth shooting program.

    Thanks,

    John

    P.S. Forgive all the typos -- I am not going back to proof all of that! :)
     
  8. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    Just to clarify, since I got an e-mail on this today: niether the AIM nor the SCTP Indiana State Championships will be held in conjunction with the 2009 Indiana State Shoot.

    Sorry for any confusion.

    John
     
  9. CBone

    CBone TS Member

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    John,

    Thanks for all your work. With the changes made at the national level this whole youth thing has gotten complex. I appreciate the work you and the BOD are doing to have a good state shoot and take care of our youth programs too.

    Bone
     
  10. Superdog1

    Superdog1 TS Member

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    John,

    I am not trying to give anone a hard time. I believe you and the BOD put a lot of effoert in the planing of these big shoots. I just wish this could have been discussed by the members who work all year long to prepare these kids for these shoots.

    "First reason to move it would the ability to have the AIM State Shoot on a weekend."
    As weekends are a positive time to hold the youth shoots, I believe the choice between weekends outside of the state shoot verses weekdays with the state shoot is the real focus of the decision. Most coaches I have worked with would rather concede to the weekday, and stay as part of the state shoot.

    "Second, in doing so, it opens for both AIM AND SCTP to have a state championship on the same weekend. "

    Even I, along with several others, am not to a full understanding the difference between these two entities. I do know most are planning on trying to place teams in both entities. I think the AIM/SCTP programs are just a "category" used as a way to hold a youth event at the state championships. By pulling these programs out of the state shoot, I am standing behind what I said to you at last years state shoot, and on my earlier post- it is sending the wrong message to young shooters- ITA Trap does not offer youth a tournement at the state championships.

    "Third, trying to run SCTP on Tuesday of the state shoot in the last past has been a logistical nightmare."

    I agree, this has offered a few challenges. So by tossing this tournement out of the state shoot, you have again told the youth that they are not worth the trouble that solving these logistical nightmares present.


    "Lasly, the thought was going to be to have the AIM state championships after the Indiana State Shoot..."

    After the state shoot, the Grand is sceduled. Most Teams plan on competing at the state to then proceede to the Grand. Squeezing in another torunement would deter attendees at the youth program, not encourage it.

    As you know, I helped organize a small club that only holds 3-4 shoots a year, bring 32 youth shooters to the state shoot. That is 32 kids that went to compete in a state tournement "with the big guys". Most would not have gone to a statewide youth event. I do not know what our direction will be this year. I may just bring 32 kids to the state shoot. I do not see a value for our program to follow the AIM, nor the SCTP. If these entities are not part of the regular program at a state and national ATA event, why would we go through the trouble to train the coaches at the AIM schools? 4-h has a wonderful program already in place.

    You know I did not support this idea, and I am still not convinced that promoting a youth only event is the best thing for stirring interest in the ATA trapshooting. Trapshooting has always been a family event for my family. I just can not see adding another weekend tournement as a viable solution to developing young shooters.


    Tom Antczak JR.
    Youth Activities Director
    Linden conservation Club
    2nd generation ATA shooter, in a line of 3 generations of ATA attendance at Indiana state shoot.

    P.s. I will also not spell check this, and apoligise up front for my typo's!
    I do mean this as a positive feedback, and not meant to bash what is being developed. I wish their was more discussion with club members on this decision.
     
  11. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Tom: This is a pretty good bash of your hard working BOD. Get a calender you have 3 weeks before the Grand. Hold the shoot the week end before the State or the Monday of the state shoot if after doesn't work.

    Relax and work it out.

    Don
     
  12. kaboom

    kaboom TS Member

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    Indiana is using White Flyer targets and White Flyer has reduced the cost per case of their targets. Why did prices go up per 100?
     
  13. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    Because they are still substantially higher than what we paid for them for 2007 -- we secured our bid in December of 2006, locking in the 2006 prices. 2006 v 2008 prices are, on a percentage basis, MUCH higher.

    Also, two other factors played a role in our decision -- in looking at the satellite grand programs, target fees are higher. Also, we lost money on the 2008 State Shoot.

    Thanks,
     
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