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ITA and ATA Defintions of Professional and Amateur

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by IndyShotgun, Oct 22, 2011.

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  1. IndyShotgun

    IndyShotgun TS Member

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    From: Trapshooting: The Patriotic Sport, A Book of Ready Reference, Giving a Brief History of the Sport, It's Appliances, Records, Rules, Etc. D.H. Eaton. Sportsmen's Review Publishing Company, Cincinnati, Ohio, 1921.

    "The following rules defining an amateur and professional in trapshooting, prepared several years by the tournament committee of the Interstate Association, were adopted [by the ATA]:

    Amateur­ - Any shooter not dependent upon his skill as a trapshot as a means of livelihood, either directly or indirectly, or in part or whole, including employes or manufacturers of, or dealers in, firearms, ammunition, powder, traps, targets and other trapshooting accessories, and who does not [italics] receive any compensation or concession, monetary or otherwise, or allowance for expenses or trapshooting supplies from such manufacturers or dealers, shall be considered an amateur {italics].

    Professional - Any shooter, including employes or manufacturers of, or dealers in, firearms, ammunition, powder, targets, traps and other trapshooting accessories, who receives his salary or any portion of his salary, or any *expenses of any kind* [entire asterisked phrase in italics] for use in trapshooting, or rebate on the market price of such articles, as compensation for the promotion of the sale or advertisement of any such products handled by such manufacturers, shall be classed as a professional [italics]."

    http://tinyurl.com/3qthaus
     
  2. FlaLagarto

    FlaLagarto Well-Known Member

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    Beretta was passing out shirts at the Grand as advertisement.. so any one wearing one of those shirts is considered a Pro ??

    Or if I give someone a pair of ear plugs and they tell all their friends how great they are .. (advertizing for me) then they would be a Pro??

    Smok'n Joe, MIA, Tron, motordoctor, vdt .. all these would be a Pro.. because they make part of their income from selling trap related service or items ??

    Am I a pro because I sell ear plugs at shoots ??
     
  3. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Don't feed the trolls Jerry.
     
  4. FlaLagarto

    FlaLagarto Well-Known Member

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    Matt,

    You know me.. I never feed a twit..ooops, I mean troll. Just trying to get a clear picture of who is and who isn't.

    Hmmmm.. forgot to ask about those people who vend at the shoots but not trap related items.. Jewelry, Massage, Coolie things to keep you from dropping on the line. Are they considered pro also ?? They make a portion of their income from shooting.

    PS. I won't tell Indy about the deal I gave you on the ear plugs.. that way he won't make you sign up as a pro.
     
  5. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Jerry,

    Shhhh!! Let's not mention that according to blowhard everyone who got a rebate on shells from the ammo company is also now a pro.

    "or rebate on the market price of such articles......................"

    Honestly, i have never seen a person so convinced he is helping Trap and the ATA yet badmouth and run it down along with it's participants every chance available. The worst part, everyone else is accused by him of doing the harm. I guess he never stopped to think that the overwhelming majority are quite happy with the sport as is.
     
  6. running bear

    running bear Member

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    Indy, jumps on every thread just so he can bad mouth the ATA and the shooters.
    Why isn't he out shooting today. Giving us peons his wisdom and experience.
    I also work at the club during registered shoots and they give me a free luch, am I a pro?

    Buck
     
  7. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Come on Jerry, Matt think about what he said,

    "Amateur­ - Any shooter not dependent upon his skill as a trapshot as a means of livelihood"

    So Jerry are you "DEPENDENT" upon your skill as a trapshooter to make your living? Jerry do you make ear plugs for a company or do you make them for Jerry??

    If you aren't/don't then you aren't a pro. As a matter of fact how many of the big gun made a living doing something else (that is the ones that are making their so called livelihood from trapshooting) before they started shooting for their living they all had job in other areas.

    This is just more of the same BS is all that it is. Even those that are putting on trapshooting instructional classes are not working for companies or manufactures, they are self employed, more crap.

    Bob Lawless
     
  8. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    It all changed when Avery Brundage left the Olympic movement.

    They didn't change their name either..

    Amateurism, an archaic idealism from the past, best left in the past.
     
  9. gailmk67

    gailmk67 Member

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    Is there any subject that Ole Indy is not an authority in? My goodness, I read an earlier post where he was gracious enough to point out spelling and grammatical errors to fellow posters. Past posts he has enlightened all with his economic and business skills. By his own testimony he can launch a clay "pigeon" better than any mechanical thrower manufactured to date. He has also declared his own ability to calibrate voice release systems, however keeping his secret, just that, his secret from the unworthy masses. He has shared his expertise in all the shooting disciplines; ATA, NSCA, NSSA, FITASC, and USA Shooting to be scorned and ridiculed. And now the clarification of professional Vs Amateur is there no end to his wisdom. His voice has been ignored simply because he will not reveal his name.


    You do not need to know his name, because you are not allowed to speak it. I say to you one day all will be graced with his presents. You will all know who he is when he steps into the light out of the shadows to deliver us all from our confused thoughts and speaks the words that most all of you have been waiting to hear;


    "Mom said if I do not apologize to you all for disrespecting you, I can't play on the computer anymore....."

    You should all be ashamed!

    Joe
     
  10. hoosier

    hoosier TS Member

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    Jerry, If you give me a pair of earplugs I will tell everyone how great they are and you can call me a pro.
     
  11. FlaLagarto

    FlaLagarto Well-Known Member

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    Hoosier,

    I have seen your name in lights.. you don't need me to help you be a star. But if you want come see me when you get down to FL this year, I'll make you an offer you can't refuse on the plugs.

    Jerry
     
  12. hoosier

    hoosier TS Member

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    Jerry, I will do that. Have a great day.
     
  13. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I'm coming clean. The ATA sends me a 1099 every year.
     
  14. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    I knew Jim. I knew it. That's why you have been so defensive on this subject. You been hold'n out on us.
     
  15. shotgunpeople

    shotgunpeople Active Member

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    Up until 1923 the ATA was the old "AMERICAN Trapshooting Association".

    The name was changed then to what we know the ATA as today, "Amateur Trapshooting Association".

    Did the current (Post 1923) ATA adopt the rules from the AMERICAN Trapshooting Association, or begin anew by writing their own set of rules ?

    I am in no way trying to stir the pot. This is something I just don't know, and am asking about.

    Dave in SC
     
  16. APrice

    APrice Active Member

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    Indygirl has now officially surpassed Tron in the race for top TS.COM troll. She can throw out most any kind of hook and get a multitude of responses. Is there some magic elixir she dips the bait in?
     
  17. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    1997 ATA Rule Book, Section III, W.:

    "Any A.T.A. member who is a full time employee of any firm, company, corporation or individual engaged in the manufacture or fabrication of shotguns, ammunition, clay targets, traps, powder, primers, or other shotgun shell components, and/or is compensated by such firm, company, corporation or individual for shooting in or attending trapshooting events may be classified as an Industry Representative.

    It shall be the member's responsibility, and duty, to notify the A.T.A. in writing of the member's Industry Representative status prior to the commencement of each target year, and at the time of commencement or termination of the member's employment. Regardless of when notification is received by the A.T.A., no Industry Representative Classification shall be effective until at least the commencement of the next full target year after date notification is received, and no mid-year classification as Industry Representative will be made except in case of emergency, as provided below. The Industry Representative Classification shall remain in effect after notification by the member, regardless of change of employment or status during any target year in which the member is classified as as Industry Representative, and Amateur Classification shall not be regained until such time as the member shall so request as provided by this rule. Amateur Classification may be regained by the member after written certification by the member is received by the A.T.A. Executive Director, by certified or registered mail, and Amateur Classification, if regained, shall be effective only after the member's receipt of a new Amateur Card issued by the A.T.A., and not earlier than at commencement of the next target year after notification.

    No Industry Representative shall compete for money or trophies in A.T.A. Registered tournaments, except those events specially provided for Industry Representatives and so stated in the program. Exceptions to this rule regarding non-competition by Industry Representatives are tournaments sponsored by Indian, Fraternal, or similar organizations, registered leagues, and those events clearly designated in the tournament program as open to both Amateurs and Industry Representatives.

    The A.T.A. Executive Director shall at all times be classified as Industry Representative, but the A.T.A. Executive Director's shooting fees and expenses shall not be paid by the A.T.A. or any other persons or entity.

    All questions or disputes regarding classification as Industry Representative and Industry Representative in case of emergency shall be decided by the Executive Committee, and they may delegate this duty to the Executive Director. All decisions by the Executive Committee, or Executive Director if designated, shall be final."


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    Subject: Industrial class(pro's)
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  18. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    Face it. Hoppe,Campbell.Kiner,Stafford,Handy,Ohye,Harrison,Marshal are all Pro's. Why do they continue to shoot as Amaetur? (The rule was real clear.) Why did they change the rule? Is it so they can win money from the amaeturs?
     
  19. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    because there is no Amateur classification.

    It's just a corporate name. nothing more.

    Pony Express no longer rides ponies.

    NASCAR drivers do not drive stock cars.

    etc, etc.
     
  20. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    If there is no amaetur classification what the heck is that little card i got in the mail that shows my averages and classifications? The corporate name was the same in 1997 when they had a rule on pro's. No change since than. The rule in 1997 clearly states there is a difference between an amateur shooter and a industry. BigM Perazzi your corporate name as you say does not hold water.
     
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