1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

&& It is hard not to be copied &&

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dennis DeVault, Mar 19, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dennis DeVault

    Dennis DeVault Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,708
    Just wanted to put this out before someone else claimed it as an original design. Last year my good friend Estle (Fuzzy) Moore came over from Indiana to our shop and wanted a new rib for his DeVault shotgun. Fuzzy & Bryan our cad guy sat down and drew up a rail aluminum rib to be put on Fuzzy's single barrel and it was made then installed and fuzzy was on his way home. Today I received a call from Fuzzy to inform me that the New Ceasar Guerini Sporting Clays gun has come out with a carbon copy duplicate of the rib we made last year. The Cessar guys were at the Ohio State shoot last year and according to Fuzzy they were looking very closly at the gun in the rack and may have taken a few photos to bring back to their shop. Nothing I can do I just wanted to let all know that Ceasar's new design is not an original. Engineered Shooting Solutions that is the tag name of our company and I am glad to see that is still alive and doing well. Just wanted to blow off a little steam this morning and thank you for listening.

    Dennis DeVault
     
  2. BD457

    BD457 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    396
    Location:
    San Diego
    Any pictures of Fuzzy's gun with it on at any shoots?

    Mike
     
  3. handlepuller

    handlepuller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,554
    Location:
    St. Augusta, MN
    People copy your "eye candy" thread titles too, but I don't think I've ever seen another one quite add up. You do great work Dennis.
     
  4. 500sks

    500sks Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Rhinelander Wi
    What model Ceasar Guerini ?
     
  5. Beretta Young Gun

    Beretta Young Gun Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    1,502
    Location:
    central ohio
    Dennis, it seems caesar has a bad habit of copying other peoples work. There release trigger design is not of there creation either. I know the gentleman personally that put the first release in onw of there summit combos even after the owner was told by the factory it couldn't be done. While the gun was at the factory for there pit stop warranty check the company took note on how the releaee was designed. Less than a month later guirinis where offered with factory releases. BYG
     
  6. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,371
    Patents eliminate that problem, but they cost money ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  7. Dennis DeVault

    Dennis DeVault Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,708
    Wpt,

    Patents are a way of protection but anymore not worth the paper they are written on. This is a very small industry and the expense is not in the patent but in the defense of the rights that you have. Trying to go after a foreign company is very tough. In the end I am glad we helped it would just be nice if folks would just admit where the ideas come from.

    Dennis DeVault
     
  8. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    6,093
    Location:
    Iowa
    Less than a month later guirinis (Guerini) where offered with factory releases. BYG


    That is some pretty fast tooling and production. They would surly be the envy of engineering departments in a few companies.
     
  9. SMOKEIT

    SMOKEIT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,001
    Location:
    SOUTHLAKE,TEXAS
    If you don't think your design warrants the time and money required to obtain a Patent you should not be surprised or object to anyone else using it. All good product designers copy without shame as they should. Customers really don't care where the idea originated. As a product designer if I saw a feature our competitor had that our customers would appreciate..I would use it...Pay a royalty..design around the patent..whatever it takes...SMOKIT
     
  10. Diamond Bruce

    Diamond Bruce Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    361

    bullettheturtle_2010_230429.jpg
    Well Dennis with all the custom nickel, bluing, and even the diamond front bead it wouldn't shoot or look half as good as it does without your stock. Thank you and your crew for being what you are.

    Bruce
     
  11. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,542
    Location:
    HELL, MICHIGAN
    Too bad it wasn't an ipod..... ;-)
     
  12. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,371
    Dennis,

    I agree with what you are saying to a point, but once a patent is applied you have legal recourse at least to some degee if the item or items are to be distributed in the United States ... I also understand your not being real happy about it but if its not protected in some way there is nothing you can do about it except essentially what you have done and voice your opinion and dislikes about it being used by another company ... Best of luck ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  13. MIWEBB

    MIWEBB TS Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2011
    Messages:
    7
    Dennis,

    It is rarely satisfying when someone uses your "intelectual property" for their own product, however, I believe that you will continue to build your business with innovative ideas.

    Any updates on the new shotgun. I am looking forward to your O/U design.

    Mike
     
  14. ken1okie

    ken1okie Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    779
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    This type of problem is rampant in industry. My company has a law suit pending against a competitor for using our proprietary drawings with our name on them....there gonna pay!!!!!!!!
     
  15. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,542
    Location:
    HELL, MICHIGAN
    The problems suing over maybe 250-500 units.

    Now, if it were 5000000 units, it might be worth it. They will shortcut and cheapen it, so continue to give greater quality...
     
  16. mette56

    mette56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,026
    Location:
    Camdenton, MO
    Funny how the cream always seems to rise to the top. Dennis, you'll stay on top...no problem...

    milt
     
  17. JohnR

    JohnR Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    387
    Location:
    Maryland
    Dennis, I am not doubting you but I sure would like to see a picture of your rib. The above link shows the new Guerini rib and it just looks like a further refinement of their Impact rib which they brought out a couple years ago.

    Picture is of my Impact which I've had a couple years.

    JohnR


    johnr_2008_300840.jpg
     
  18. Salt

    Salt Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2011
    Messages:
    79
  19. Dennis DeVault

    Dennis DeVault Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,708
    I want to thank everyone for their imput. It has been enlightening to read the comments. At this time I will request that this thread be allowed to drop as I spoke with Mr. Lang yesterday about the rib,. We had a very pleasant conversation and all is great with the world again. Thank you to everyone that allowed me to vent and I hope all of you have a great day.

    Dennis DeVault
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.