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Is the High Gun System Killing Our Sport?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by markdenis, Jun 20, 2008.

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  1. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    It is not the high gun system...it is the lack of a professional division that is helping to bury this sport.
     
  2. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    At what point do you become a PRO? With earnings over X per year? I do not really know what highgun means or how the moneys are divided? I am only a C class shooter so have some patience. from the lack of money I seen put into class purses even in the A AA groups Im not really sure what the fuss is about. We had a simular system in pool. With options simular to TRAP, if you did not pay in you only got braggin rights. but if you played some one with a 1 rateing and lets say I was a 7. The one would have to beat you 4 straight or 6 total. As a 7 I needed to beat him 1st game or 2 games to win. Now the options where like this. game 3 is a 1vs7 so you could opt for a 7wins2 or 7wins1 or 1wins4 1wins6. As a player you could bet in the pool. you then would get a % of any options played in your game. then there where run table options god so many things. each bar had different opptions also. The best thing was after paying for your match 7.00. that was it. no money to win just braggin rights.
     
  3. jbbor

    jbbor Active Member

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    I've been actively involved in this sport since 1972 and have heard the same BS almost constantly every since. Ours, like all sports, have their "Big Dogs" and the rest of us! SSDD Jimmy Borum
     
  4. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Money awards have no place in any sport that claims to consist of amateurs.
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Added money at the shoots I have attended is typically very small ($100-$500) for one event. Some state shoots have eliminated added money. Remember, when a program advertises $5,000 added money and trophies, it typically is $4,500 in trophies and $500 added money split into several events.

    Now, the added money usually goes to the high gun. If it were divided by the percentage system (40-30-20-10) then the top four scores would be paid, ties divide, but the payment would be in the area of $10 or less for many. It is also quite common, in a percentage system, for a lower score to get more money than a higher score.

    I do not shoot to win money. I don't have a problem with other shooters who shoot to win money but they should realize they have to beat the best if they want a big pay out.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    OK, thing I see.........get the "pro's" out. Then the next top 5% of shooters win most of the time. You have to shoot well to win. If you cant or are unable to shoot well or get better then you have to rely on luck to win.
     
  7. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    We had a problem at our league shoots. 3 class system. Once you win your class you move up. once your 2 high score weekly average gets to a higher class you move up. now we had a lot of GOLD class shooters. There where a few saying "why shoot the league" Yeah know a b c or d will win. So we made a Platnium Class Anyone who has one Gold or has shot 591 or better(we take the 2 high scores per week out of a 16 week league, then drop 4 low scores for league total) moves up. Maybe it is time for a Highgun class of somesort. Where they have to pony up shooter $$ vs shooter $$
     
  8. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    As I see it, most people who participate in sports (and in life) are merely "average" and this equates to the "shooters" also. Most shooters/people like to think that they are better, but they're not.

    Possibly institute a Lewis System which takes out the top 5% or 10% of the scores or any scores over 96% shoot for their own money....

    Curt
     
  9. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmmmmmm..........Let's see..........If we take the top 5% of the shooters out, then we can bitch about the next top 5% of the shooters and then throw them out too.......

    After a few more layers of 5 per-centers are thrown out, they could be down to my class.......lol

    No way, those top 5 per-centers earned their way up there. No one handed it to them, and no one said you had to shoot against them. They are playing by the rules and now you want to change the rules.

    Sob, sob, take your ball and go home or get your gun and let's go shoot some targets.

    Your choice.......

    Mine choice is to shoot! I never worry about someone beating me. You only beat yourself because you and only you didn't break enough targets to be competitive.

    It isn't like someone has a hand in your face while your shooting. Why didn't you break the target? Oh, you lifted your head? Hmmmmmmm......

    Wonder who's fault that was?

    Hauxfan!
     
  10. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    Iowa man!!
    I don't often play the money for that reason. I still like to shoot though.
     
  11. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    Well said, Hauxfan.
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    All I can say is this statement "But for the betterment of the sport we need to do something different.." may be correct but the percentage system in my opinion is not the way to do it.

    Any system that pays more money to a 99 than it does to a 100 is certainly not promoting competition just luck. If luck was what I went to a shoot for I would not be competitive as I understand it.

    For what it is worth I agree with Hauxfan. "No way, those top 5 per-centers earned their way up there. No one handed it to them, and no one said you had to shoot against them." Changing the rules to make it easier for the lesser shooter to win goes against the grain as far as I am concerned.

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    If your complaining about someone breaking 98+ averages and winning the money while your only capable of breaking 92's it's best you learn how to shoot first.

    If your complaint concerns under-handicapped top 27yd. shooters continually killing the pot, quit playing the money, as most of the smart shooters already have!!
     
  14. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    I shoot for the pure enjoyment I get from doing it. I am shooting against ME and nobody else. If I happen to shoot a good score and it wins something, great...I seldom play any options or Lewis class money.
     
  15. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    No one is forced to bet any money.

    Saying that however, I do think anyone that makes money in the shooting industry. IE: ownes a club, gives lessons for payment, makes and/or sells shooting books, tapes, or CD's, sells guns and ammo as a commerical enterprise, works for a ammo or gun company; should be considered a industry representative or professional shooter, and not be allowed win, receive, or bet at any ATA shoot.
     
  16. Colonel Reb

    Colonel Reb TS Member

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    You're not required to do the options, so don't do them if you're not any good. Now that's coming from me, a D class shooter. It's always so hilarious to me when they ask at registration if I want to do options.

    As I see it, shooting is a lot more accessible and masterable by so many people, that you just have to be that much better to win. Some friends took me golfing once and I absolutely HATED it, because I was so demonstrably bad that I knew it would take lots and lots of professional lessons to be decent, if ever. With shooting most people can do well enough to have fun with a few pointers and lots of practice on their own.

    Trap shooting's decline has more to do with economics, lack of exposure, politics, etc.
     
  17. Jim R

    Jim R Ljutic Nut TS Supporters

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    Drew spend a little more time on the practice trap and less time with all your posts and maybe this won’t be a problem for you.
     
  18. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Why do you always feel fun shooters have to shoot registered and vice versa. Each to his own game. Why should a person who sells some reloading supplies be classified as a industry shooter. Pure BS. I just broke a 194 today, am I happy? No Way. Whose fault is it? MINE Do I have excuses? You betch ya. The big boys and a whole lot of other folks broke 200's.

    Bottom line it ain't broke so don't fix it.

    Don
     
  19. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    This situation has been discussed over and over. Where do we draw the line. There is not reasonable solution. But then a different system of squadding, bank selection etc. might have some important improvements.

    For years the better shooters have been allowed to select shoot times and banks. That was condoned at Vandalia for years. And now that shooters have learned the banks at Sparta is condoned again.

    I do not wish to state a better system of squadding and bank selection will make that great deal of difference. But it just may make a difference in a target or two. And that will make a great deal of difference to some that shoot professionally.

    We need to make some form of requirements. If a person makes his/her living at the sport through payments, either in cash, expenses or expense reimbursements, or free shells and guns, or through imcome form teaching or
    promotional considerations then that person should be in a different classification. The average shooter cannot compete. This has been a practice for many years. But today it is more recognizeab;e amd more and more shooters drop out of refuse to compete.

    This sport is comprised of average people. Most do not have the time or financial ability to shoot a great deal of targets. ANd then be put in categories that make them almost completely non competitive. High classes due to averages or yardages earned by score of meaningless wins or placements. A complete overview of our sport is needed. And not by our current system of management. - Jim
     
  20. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    At big shoots there ought to be a Master Handicap Class for guys with HC averages over 92-93. They should be squadded together so that others could watch them compete head to head. I bet that sponsor dollars would soon flow into that class making it a worthwhile place to compete.
     
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