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Is the core of the ATA dissolving from the inside?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by JTEA, Aug 13, 2010.

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  1. JTEA

    JTEA Member

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    A local club will be holding it's two day club championship this weekend. As of last night it was unclear if it would registered or not. (A friend told me there was also talk of combining reg. scores with non-reg shooters; which is not allowed by ATA) They had 17 squads for 200 Sngls last year so it's not a bad turn out. Problem is, a number of club shooters, who seem to only shoot there, are not ATA members. The club is in it's rights to have it as a non-reg. shoot, and a very large, old club in the area does the same. Many shooters would ask, why should I spend the extra $?


    Is the core of the ATA dissolving from the inside? If many shooters who used to attend their State Shoots no longer care to attend them (and the Grand), how does the ATA expect them to have an interest in supporting the organization. There are different reasons, and to be fair the economy has added a major dent. This begs one root of the question, when you pay extra fees, plan and travel to the State Shoot, then see the same big guns on the same best banks, and you have to scrounge for a decent second or third tier bank, why go to the shoot and why worry about having registered shoots at local clubs? It goes both ways. Take the average shooter for granted and see what happens when the numbers drop, in part by clubs who decide to "opt out" of registered targets.

    Isn't this one of the questions and discussions that appears to be unheard by, or addressed by the EC, at least where there is a difference in trap banks, time to shoot, etc.? EC could write in random draw of banks for all major shoots, online live drawings for pre-squading ie: live lottery drawing done online using ATA ID #'s.


    JT (ATA / NRA Life Member)
     
  2. smoking357

    smoking357 TS Member

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    It would bother me, not at all, to see clubs hold non-ATA shoots.
     
  3. GoldEx

    GoldEx Active Member

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    JTEA... another example of an archaic A.T.A. rule that needs to go!!! What the hell difference does it make if some of ther shooters are not A.T.A.? Uhhh... NONE! It's your club. Screw the ATA. Let e'm shoot. Cast the first stone!! Stand up for what you believe in! Damn Dinosaurs...

    Jeff
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't pre-squad.com solve all that JT? Start now, get the votes organized to get your state and other big shoots squadded there. Go to your State Membership Meeting (with the votes in hand) and get it passed. Problem solved.

    Neil
     
  5. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Or just do what you like ?? It,s not a problem really ?
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    JTEA- Don't forget that ATA shoots must be approved by the state association, a club cannot make the decision unilaterally.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    You can have and ATA shoot and a club shoot at the same time, they cannot shoot together. ATA scores can be reported in the normal fashion and all scores can be used for the club championship. So whats the problem ??????
     
  8. JTEA

    JTEA Member

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    Neil, ask the number of A or better shooters who no longer attend the PA State shoot if pre-squading solves it. The answer is NO, that's the point. Nothing like going to the trouble to pre-squad and getting the worst banks there for some of your draws. Guess what, you can't re-draw until you return the squads you don't want and they then re-enter them back into the system. Can take an hour. Meanwhile the clock is ticking and you may be able to get a spot and rush to shoot, perhaps not. That's exactly the point. BTW, hundreds will be standing in line from the time the windows open so you would think the pre-squading would be better. I have stood in line the evening before, the morning of and pre-squaded. Your best chance is to go in line and then go to the rear of the line if nothing looks good. Eventually they may open more banks, if not you may then take the dregs or go visit the vendors.

    I was reading some PA Trap HOF pages yesterday and saw the name of a fellow shooter I see now and then. I had forgotten his wins at the State in the past and now think of the fact that he did not attend one day this year. Other upper level shooters as well. It's fun to attend, but I think the drop in the options played and the payouts in the past decade (pre- economic collapse) show the awareness that they are competing against the "insiders" who always have the choice banks. In the past, on days when they didn't even win, you would see big guns pocketing a minimum of $1000 / day in options money.


    NJ Bob, I guess the problem is; what will the future of the ATA be and how will it exist? That's all. It's already in debt, as I understand things. If enough don't care then I guess we'll all be attending "local shoots". One of my neighbors shoots five or more days a week at different local clubs; all non-registered. He prefers meat shoots and money shoots. I go to both, and if the club wants everyone to shoot it's championship it's fine with me. BTW, this is SE PA. We have ten clubs within an hours drive and at least fifteen at an hour and a half. Four or more traps.


    JT
     
  9. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Joel...

    The Oxford management would be better off to run the club championships as "non-registered" so as to bring in more shooters (the thurs. nite and meat shooters).

    This way it'd be more of a true "Club Championship".

    Curt
     
  10. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    Club Championships should not be registered. I don't know of any club that has more registered shooters than non-registered. If you eliminate all the non-registered shooters from the event how can it be called a CLUB championship? JRM
     
  11. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    I have a question on ATA and Non ATA shooters on the same squad. During the early to mid nineties were the two types of shooters allowed to shoot on the same squad and have the birds for the ATA shooters on that squad registered? Bulge.
     
  12. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    No. Never. (Until Big-50's where it can be done.)

    Neil
     
  13. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    There is no rule or law that says a club has to have ATA registered shoots and they can still use the same exact rules as they have for years ... The ATA charges clubs for them hosting ATA shoots with the daily fees which would be eliminated and could be used for added money, a purse, or what ever ... The State fees would also not have to be paid to the State Association which would make even more money in the kitty ... The ATA is causing a lot of clubs to shy away from shooting ATA programs and events and unless there is some major adjustments made with in the Assocaition itself they are on a path of self destruction ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  14. geneleroy

    geneleroy TS Member

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    Just my $0.02 worth. I only shoot registered targets(very few in recent years)and an occasional practice round prior to. I play no options and shoot for the pleasure, competition and challenge. Most, not all, but most ATA members know, understand and abide by our rules. If I had squadded, say post one, paid and was ready to shoot when non-members, Grandpa, Dad and a couple grand kids getting ready for hunting season show up for posts 2/5 with their A-5's w/cutts comps, load 5 rounds of high brass #6 pheasant loads, I would not be a happy camper, so to speak!
     
  15. geneleroy

    geneleroy TS Member

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    Mr. Barrelbulge, I have a 1995 rule book and section III E-3 covers the question, registered and non-registered don't mix!
     
  16. JTEA

    JTEA Member

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    Perhaps I was misunderstood. I can fully understand why a club championship is non-registered and have no qualms.

    My point being; if we can hold shoots such as club championships and smaller without the "ATA sanction", what role does the ATA really serve? Beyond collecting money that funds the larger shoots (and keeping data on scores which may be done by any club with a laptop or PC), what does it do for shooters? If the role is one of collecting money for every target shot from EVERY registered shooter to be spent on these larger shoots, then how about some equity when it comes to drawing squads etc. for EVERY shooter? If a facility is blessed with identical background, mechanical condition of traps etc. for every bank, this is all but mute. Unfortunately this is often not the case, and it was even so at Vandalia, the Valhalla. The top guns will keep paying their dues/ or probably are Life Members anyway. The erosion is occurring from the middle, being those who have guns, shoot and have been ATA members. The numbers decline, some claim money leaks out through perks, and it remains to be seen if any real changes will occur. On top of it all the costs keep rising.



    JT
     
  17. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    It has and always will be the many pay the freight for the few . That is untill the many get tired of it . Sounds like the Dem,s ?
     
  18. Lyle

    Lyle Member

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    You seriously think some shooters get preferred banks?
    Would that still make them "gentlemen" if they took the preferred banks and had an unfair advantage?

    Lyle
     
  19. JTEA

    JTEA Member

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  20. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Alf, most of these threads on the ATA sound like the Dems. The Dems being the BOD and the EC and the members being the tax paying citizens. Obama and his crew don't listen to the taxpayers and from what is being posted the BOD and EC don't listen to the members. Bulge.
     
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