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Is it possible to wear a MX3 out beyond repair?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by himark, Oct 1, 2010.

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  1. himark

    himark Well-Known Member

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    I have looked at alot of guns with some high mileage on them. I see BT99's that fall open in my hand when released for sale and think "crap nobody is going to buy this" then I come back to the gun store and sure enough its gone! So this brings a question about break action guns that are popular models (ie parts availability) I see alot of guys getting guns re-worked with total overhauls for less than 400 bux for the most part.

    Is there a point when they are more costly to rebuild then to replace?
     
  2. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    "Is there a point when they are more costly to rebuild then to replace?"

    Would depend on the make and model of the gun.
     
  3. brent375hh

    brent375hh TS Member

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    Saw a couple of guys slamming a BT99 and a Citori shut last night. They were literally closing them as hard as they could. They would even vibrate for a few seconds. I am sure they can answer your question soon.
     
  4. himark

    himark Well-Known Member

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    agreed, so for the sake of discussion lets put a new price of the gun a 1500.00. I know this doesnt cover the P gun but will catch all those BT guns and alot of other models.
     
  5. ABH

    ABH Member

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    There's a guy at my club who shoots a Daly SBT. Every time he closes his gun, the barrel sounds like a 34" tuning fork. Makes me cringe every time I hear it. To answer your question Himark,it may mot be worth it if the gun is inexpensive. A BT99 that has been abused, can easily cost $500 or more for a rebuild,not including shipping etc. What will the gun be worth when your done, especially in this market. It may be worth throwing in a few more bucks and purchase a newer gun.IMHO.

    ART H.
     
  6. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    There are quite a few things that can wear out on a MX3.. First is hinge pins.. That's a $600/$800 job to start with.. Next is the place on the barrel mono-block that the pins fit.. That's $400 or more IF you can find someone to build them up and recut them... Then.. the track for the locking bolt..Can't be rebuilt unless you build it up and EDM the slot..$$$$$$$$$$$$ plenty..if you can find anyone to do it.. Firing pin holes $75.00 each give or take a little bit.. That's just the start.. If you need anymore.. E-mail me directly..

    Next thing is as the locking bolt/barrel ears/hinge pins/barrel pivot recess wears..your POI can change as you refit the watertable to correct the conditions.. You can only do that so much.. and keep your contact points correct.. Then becomes the defination of what is useable.. If you shoot bunker/sporting clays/skeet and demand a 50/50 POI.. That can be gone forever in an older shotgun..ANY MAKE O/U
     
  7. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Good assessment from PBB as usual. His first hand experience with a good gunsmith is very valuable.

    To answer the original question, yes, it can. Especially on a relatively inexpensive Perazzi. MX-3 being build on a round monobloc is going to wear out faster than the standard squared monobloc.

    The original Perazzi squared monobloc is very strong with factory fitting, you can hold the barrel on a properly fitted gun and fire the bottom barrel without the locking bolt. Can't do that with the round monobloc, not to mention if it fires the top barrel first.

    Every thing comes with a price, anything can be rebuild, the value of the end result determinate if it's doable.
     
  8. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Thank you Steve for the kind words.. Everyone sees me working at the GRAND..for 1 reason.. TO LEARN FROM DAN.. Other than Giacomo.. and maybe Luccio.. no other gunsmith in the world has worked on as many old Perazzi shotguns.. The relationship of how one part fits to another..vastly changes from wear.. This year at the GRAND.. I saw many Perazzi shotguns that were past their time.. Yes.. they still safely shoot.. but they are not the smooth.. easy gun they started life as.. Enough money can rebuild anything..but if you want it to be correct...have someone who knows what they are doing with older Perazzi shotguns to check it out.. Especially the hinge pins and where they fit in the mono-block.. Followed by the bolt face.. followed by the engagment pattern on the watertable.. Then.. go from there..

    Early in my Perazzi life.. Giacomo tried to show me so I would not make mistakes.. Dan easily finished this year what Giacomo started.. While I still don't know crap about triggers.. Dan has started showing me many of the "tricks' to keep them the best they can be.. I've done a few to date I'm proud of.. I've got to get use to banging on parts to make them fit..That new to me..but on a Perazzi.. often needed.. LOL.. Anyway.. all good.. If I can help anyone close to New Orleans.. I'm here.. Mike
     
  9. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Mike,

    What does "watertable" mean on a P-gun?

    Thanks,

    David
     
  10. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    the sides of the mono-block.. where they rest on the receiver is the water table.. The contact points here either "make" the gun close smoothly..as well as open.. or not.. The wear pattern changes as the pivot and pivot points wear..
     
  11. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    After I read this thread, it crossed my mind... what do you do with a gun that's just too worn out, beat down and used up to justify spending the money on a refurb?

    MK
     
  12. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    trade it..or if you want to bev right by G-d.. sell it here for what it is.. A badly worn receiver.. headspace problems??? It's still worth$250/$400 to someone who can rebuild it.. They might put in 25 hours or more.. and have a $1250 receiver when its all over..
     
  13. omgb

    omgb Well-Known Member

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    I've spoken with Kim Rhode on this issue a couple of times. She puts thousands of rounds through her gun each season, often going a very long time between cleanings. I've watched her close her gun and much of the time, she just flips it shut. So, how many rounds does it take to shoot one loose? I would think that most of us, unless one was an olympic or professional shooter, could get several decades out of a gun before it was too worn to be safe or accurate. Then a rebuild and a couple of more decades of use. By that time the owner is most likely taking a dirt nap at that big shoot in the sky. I don't know though, I don't shoot more than maybe 5K rounds a year. So I have to bow to more experienced and more active shooters on this one.
     
  14. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Kim Rhode's famous MX-12 is a perfect example for the topic. It shot way over one million rounds during the past 30 some years. It's nowhere near been pampered. Perazzi USA did one maybe two rebuilds, few repairs in between, not a whole lot for this particular gun that won 4 Olympics and hundreds of world and domestic events since Kim was 16.

    From what I heard, she is going to use this same gun for the next Olympic in London.
     
  15. omgb

    omgb Well-Known Member

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    Another point to consider...Kim shoots the olympic international 24 gram load.It's pretty mild and that might figure into the equation too. Still, I distictly recall her telling me that she runs through a couple of thousand rounds a week and may go months without cleaning that gun. If i'm wrong about the number of rounds I'll stand corrected but I'm pretty sure I've got it right.
     
  16. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Accordinmg to Dan.. the "Rhino rollers" vastly shorten ones gun life.. He's speaking of the 3 plus dram 27 yard shells.. or worse the pigeon loads.. And yes.. bunkers shells are easier on a gun because they are light load.. and low pressure.. usually under 9000 psi..
     
  17. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    One day I was introducing my friend's daughter to her at the range, Kim was doing 750 in the morning and 750 in the afternoon that day. She was glad that I gave her a good reason to take a break.
     
  18. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    less said the better. i am a release setter with gun open and i click it shut. and shoot 5 thou a year. my gun does not change. i clean it and use wheel bearing grease on the pins, recvr/iron connection and the back of the bbl lug. did the same for my last bt. thry do not shoot loose thst way.

    neglect kills these guns
     
  19. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Jack, what "neglect" did to your arm?
     
  20. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    ...but figure this; how many cycles does a valve spring get in a high performance, say, Corvette ZR-1 engine before the spring is sacked? And this is a pushrod engine. So it's all relative...e.g., an average of 2000 cycles per minute over 2000 hours of use after three years or so...So why not a gun going millions of cycles?

    It's all relative.
     
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