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is it fair?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by RV4driver, Jun 21, 2009.

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  1. RV4driver

    RV4driver TS Member

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    You just know that irks the long yardage shooters.

    Jeff, newbie, short yardage shooter, but working on it...
     
  2. wdr-NY

    wdr-NY TS Member

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    Sunday happen to be the only day where there was high wind all day. Take a look at the results of all of the earlier handicap events in the week.

    In the Stephanie Sandler handicap event, 11 of the top 12 were 27 yard shooters, including the winner, Debbie Ohye.

    In the Colonial Classic handicap event, half of the top twelve were 27 yard shooters, including the winner, Stephanie Sandler.

    In the Rio Handicap, 4 of the top 8 were 27 yarders, the event was won by a 23 yard shooter, though.

    The Media Handicap was won by a 27 yarder, and at least half of the trophies winners were 27 yarders as well.

    The Hall of Fame Handicap was won by a 27 yarder and 2/3 of the trophy winners are back fence shooters.

    Again, the Jack Aldridge Handicap was won by a 27 yarder and again 2/3 of the trophy winners are back fence shooters.

    The Krieghoff handicap was won by a 27 yarder (1200 shooters, btw) and again more than half of the trophy winners shoot from 27 yards.

    And even though today was a high wind day, the runner up, Doug Jones shoots from the 27 (his third handicap trophy of the week) as do exactly HALF of the trophy winners from today.

    Yes... I'd say the handicap system is fair.

    Walker
     
  3. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    what else could you possible do. fair ? I have not been able to get my minimum targets in for my state shoot. So I shoot penalty? Class A this year.
    same with yardage. I find a simple solution. Dont like the rules dont play or become a board or commitee member of some sort and get something done. I like to shoot so I play. this year I shot better than last in the 16 95/95=180
    double I never get to shoot doubles 66. 23y 24 17 21 21. I did not get to shoot any caps since 08 state shoot. so yes I think the system is fair.
     
  4. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Targets should be set at a minimum of 60 yards and 60 mph for all events.

    Get some sport back in the game.

    Curt
     
  5. robusto

    robusto TS Member

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    I think the system works pretty well. It seems to me that the attitude is when a short yardage shooter wins they are a sandbagger, and when a 27 yarder wins, the system is broke. I see it like this, the 27 yarders are there because they are better hdcp. shooters, so they will naturally win more. The short yardage guys are there because they have not learned to shoot hdcp so well yet so natrually they are not going to win as often. Seems about right to me. Our system just closes the gap to where everyone has a chance to win if they have a good day.
    Scott 21.5 yd.
     
  6. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Everyone tends to put their own personal spin on this but being a struggling long yardage shooter, I think it is fair that the 27 yarders are winning most of the handicap events. These are the people that have paid their dues and mastered this element of the game. I hope I get to that level someday. I suppose the max distance could be extended to further handicap people but the best shooters will continue to win so our objective should be to improve our own shooting skills as opposed to trying to make the rules fit our lack of ability.
     
  7. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    There's already an event where the top shooters are expected to win nearly everytime-it's called "Singles"!!
     
  8. Bluzman98

    Bluzman98 Member

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    This is the way I look at it....


    They shoot the same guns as we do.


    They shoot the same ammo as we do.


    They shoot the same targets that we do.


    BUT.....at longer range, because they "earned" the right to do so.

    So if they win (beat you) walk up, shake their hand, and congratulate them. They don't win because the system is flawed, they win because they are better shooters....that simple.


    JMHO

    Jim C (25 yds)
     
  9. Seitz373

    Seitz373 Member

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    Wolfram nailed it. I made it through the yardages fairly quickly and struggle to break a decent score from the fence. Anybody that can consistently break winning scores from long yardage deserves to win on a steady basis.
     
  10. BRGII

    BRGII TS Member

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    maclellan1911, here in Oregon 95+95=190, must be Eastern math you use. R
     
  11. SR1

    SR1 TS Member

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    maclellan 1911 95/95=190 lol.
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    oleolliedawg

    "There's already an event where the top shooters are expected to win nearly everytime-it's called "Singles"!!"

    Well according to Dawg we no longer have a class system in singles.

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Bob, we may have a class system in Singles but I don't consider a C class shooter who broke a 197 the real winner when there were 10 200's in AA or AAA.

    Simply stated, he won his class but not the shoot. Are you telling us that when Kay won the GAH a few years ago with a 99 the other shooters with 98's in different yardage groups actually won the shoot!!
     
  14. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    oleolliedawg

    "Are you telling us that when Kay won the GAH a few years ago with a 99 the other shooters with 98's in different yardage groups actually won the shoot!!"

    Dawg come on no more than you are telling everyone that the only class that counts in singles are the one that have the 200's in them. I see that yardage groups have no standing in the ATA either according to you.

    Class doesn't seem to mean any thing according to you. Now neither does yardage group.

    So again this isn't about what is good for all shooters just for you right. Or should I say your standard because like me you don't shoot enough registered targets to worry about who wins and who doesn't.

    Bob Lawless
     
  15. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Bob, I don't have to care who wins a class below AA or AAA as evidenced by my classification at the PA State shoot-penalty AAA and 27yds.!!
     
  16. Seitz373

    Seitz373 Member

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    "we may have a class system in Singles but I don't consider a C class shooter who broke a 197 the real winner when there were 10 200's in AA or AAA."

    I'm pretty sure that every C class shooter I know would be extremely happy with 197 and winning their class. Never have I seen somebody with a 91 or 92 average that breaks a 197 or hell even a 190 consider themselves losers.
     
  17. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather know what percentage of 27 yd shooters can't hold a 27 yd average and would be competitive at shorter yardages...

    Generally most shooters will have their highs and their lows. That's why their in lower classes. Not because they can't shoot good scores, but, because they are terribly inconsistent.....

    Yes, it's fair....

    JC

    Hell, Michigan
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Seitz373

    "I'm pretty sure that every C class shooter I know would be extremely happy with 197 and winning their class."

    You would be correct every C class shooter I know would be thrilled with a 197. However that doesn't mean a thing to the Dawg he seems to think that the ATA rises and sets on what he wants.

    BigM-Perazzi if you want to know about inconsistency ask the Dawg he can tell you about 27 yard shooting and consistency.

    Dawg

    "I don't have to care who wins a class below AA or AAA as evidenced by my classification at the PA State shoot-penalty AAA and 27yds"

    Thats good Dawg but just because you don't have to care doesn't give you the right to belittle those that do care. But you are very good a belittling people aren't you?

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Bob, what do you call B and C shooters who can't seem to break above 94 in Singles or 85 at their yardage but rise to the occasion and always seem to break winning scores at a major shoots-winners? I reserve a term for them which I will not repeat on this site.

    You seem to think the sun rises and sets on thievery!!
     
  20. Seitz373

    Seitz373 Member

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    Dawg, when you have 5 C shooters at a little club, one of them MIGHT break 94. When you have 300 C class shooters at 1 shoot, what are the odds of maybe 5 of them having the best score of the year? Pretty good. The kid at PA who broke 98 had a good day. Everybody has them, and it was his day. Sure there are some sandbaggers, but a lot of it is somebody who just does everything right on a particular day. I do consider the people who break 195 from C class winners.
     
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