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Is a gun club a PUBLIC PLACE?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Big Heap, Oct 10, 2011.

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  1. Big Heap

    Big Heap TS Member

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    SACRAMENTO, Calif. — Gov. Jerry Brown's says he has signed a measure that bans the open carrying of handguns in California.

    The law, AB144, makes it a misdemeanor to carry an exposed and unloaded gun in a public place.

    The governor's office made the announcement in a statement early Monday morning. Brown has been rushing to sign dozens of measures sent to him by lawmakers.

    Top California law enforcement officials supported the legislation.

    The Los Angeles Times reports that Brown said he had "listened to the police chiefs."

    Supporters say the only person who knows whether the gun is loaded is the person carrying the gun. Opponents say the bill is one of many assaults on the public's Second Amendment rights.
     
  2. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Is a gun club a

    If a gun club is chartered to be accessible to members only, then no it is not a public place.

    If it holds NRA matches, PITA or ATA or any type of cometitive shoots where the public or guests of the members are welcomed, then yes, it is a public place.

    I expected this stuff when "Gov Moonbeam" got elected into office again, I am just surprised he has not done more so far.

    The total destruction of California may well be seen in this decade.

    The bill he signed giving special preference to the children of illegal aliens is the first of many costly measures for an already broken State.

    I see he also signed a bill outlawing people under 18 to use tanning beds.
    That will put a lot of tanning places out of business for sure.
     
  3. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

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    So, it's ok if the gun is loaded? Who openly carries an unloaded gun?

    rm
     
  4. Big Heap

    Big Heap TS Member

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    OK - who else?
     
  5. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    New Law Bans Open Carry of Handguns in Calif.

    California will become the fifth state to prohibit openly carrying handguns in public after Gov. Jerry Brown announced early Monday he had signed the ban into law amid heavy opposition from gun enthusiasts.


    AB144 by state Assemblyman Anthony Portantino, D-Pasadena, makes it a misdemeanor to carry an exposed and unloaded gun in public or in vehicles, with violators facing up to a year in prison or a potential fine of $1,000 when the law takes effect Jan 1.


    The bill exempts hunting and shooting events and does not apply to those who are given permits to carry a concealed weapon by local law enforcement authorities.


    Portantino said the bill is an opportunity to prevent tragedy before it happens.


    "It's not if somebody is going be shot, it's when somebody is going to be shot," he said. "We have the opportunity to avoid that, and that's why this is so critical."


    He said law enforcement officials have been concerned about the proliferation of guns in public and the tense situations that arise when someone sees another person carrying a firearm in public. He said the encounters can escalate quickly because others don't know whether the gun is loaded or unloaded.


    One of the first rules of firearms safety is to always assume a weapon is loaded.


    "Main Street California is not the Old West, and you don't need a gun to buy a cheeseburger," Portantino said.


    Top California law enforcement groups, including the California Police Chiefs Association and the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department, supported the legislation.


    "By prohibiting the open carry of guns, we can now take our families to the park or out to eat without the worry of getting shot by some untrained, unscreened, self-appointed vigilante," Dallas Stout, president of the California chapters of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said in a statement.


    The Brady Campaign, which sponsored the legislation, said California joins Florida, Illinois, Oklahoma and Texas as the only states to ban the open carry of handguns. It said 33 states, including Pennsylvania, Michigan, Louisiana and Colorado, allow open carry.


    Gun advocates and most Republican lawmakers have criticized the law, saying it targets law-abiding citizens. State Assemblyman Tim Donnelly, R-Hesperia, said Brown sent the message that he has no respect for the Constitution.


    "There are risks to living in a free state, and for the governor to take away and chisel away at the Second Amendment right when he claimed to respect it, it just kind of shows his true colors," Donnelly said.
     
  6. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    yakimaman: It's already illegal in CA to carry a loaded gun without a permit to do so they are just adding the unloaded gun to the issue. There was, may still be, many folks that purposely took advantage of the unloaded visible gun issue to needle law enforcement and the public with this issue; thus, the "need" for the new law.....breakemall
     
  7. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    Our club prohibits the open carry of handguns. One day some guy - a non- member - came in wearing his sixgun on his hip. We told him he wasn't allowed to do that and he got belligerent and accused us of being anti-gun and a lot of other things. (A gun club that's anti gun.) We had to ask him to leave.

    We allow anyone with a CCW to carry his gun concealed. Any gun that isn't being carried concealed must be cased and unloaded. The reason we don't allow open carry is very simple. Handgun use is restricted to the pistol range.
    When someone is walking around with a handgun, we can't be sure that he isn't intending use it to shoot skeet, trap, or 5 stand - especially if he's not a member and doesn't know the rules.
     
  8. MisterHappy

    MisterHappy Member

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    Depends on the Club's charter, I'd say.

    Ours is private; people who are not members are "guests" not "the public"

    Your house, your rules.
     
  9. 391 shooter

    391 shooter Well-Known Member

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    Sooooo,

    "makes it a misdemeanor to carry an exposed and unloaded gun in public or in vehicles, with violators facing up to a year in prison or a potential fine of $1,000"

    If I get this straight, if you are carrying your shotguns to an ATA event in your vehicle and are stopped by a CHIPey, local Poeleese or Shuruff and they see the unloaded shotgun gun in the bed of your truck, or in its case or in the back seat of your car, truck or look in the trunk then you are illegal because you have an unloaded gun in public and are not at the gun club shooting event where it is legal?


    How in the hell are you suppose to get to an event legally?



    Attorneys are going to have a field day with this.
     
  10. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    391, I suspect you missed the "handguns" part of the law...
     
  11. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    So...........how are you supposed to legally transport your HANDGUN to the handgun shooting range??
     
  12. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    <i>"Main Street California is not the Old West, and you don't need a gun to buy a cheeseburger," Portantino said.</i>

    Yeeeah, tell that to the patrons of Luby's, dumbass.
     
  13. mallard2

    mallard2 Active Member

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    Having an ATA shoot does not make a gun club a public place. If, for example, the county or state own the land, it is public. Gun "Club" leases of public property cannot exclude members, especially if the county or state or fed agency gets federal money.

    Then, the Public Access Act, a federal law, trumps everything, and it is a public place.

    The CA law excludes public shooting facilities.
     
  14. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    Portantino said the bill is an opportunity to prevent tragedy before it happens.

    "It's not if somebody is going be shot, it's when somebody is going to be shot," he said. "We have the opportunity to avoid that, and that's why this is so critical."

    ... and can somebody explain how that is possible with an UNLOADED firearm of any kind?!

    best regards,

    Jay
     
  15. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    And... no one EVER gets shot in public in Commiefornia, right?
     
  16. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    So many times a law lies dormant, just like an unexploded land mine. Just waiting for the day someone steps on it. We have the news media to blame for the direction of the public's concerns. The politicians would have little effect upon the people without the help of the nightly news telling people HOW they should think and feel. And while the media seems to still meet the criteria for reporting all the news worthy events. It totally puts whatever spin the broadcasting station dictates. Otherwise the 'talking head' wouldn't have the job. People forget that the reporting done in the media is CONTRIVED. Packaged for consumption. We used to make fun of papers like the 'Star' that sold at the checkout stand in your grocery. Anymore they contain as much truth as the paper found on your porch each day. What has to be realized are the why's and how's of a governor willing to sign such a bill. Was he only acting on the donation of money that paid for his signature? Was it the great fear of bodily harm that MIGHT occur? Either way, or for whatever reason he had, it wasn't a good bill to sign. He would have saved more lives signing a bill requiring everyone driving a car to wear a helmet like motorcyclists. But, who knows, I'm sure some jackass will be putting that bill on his desk any day now.
     
  17. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    Most gun clubs are non profit and if so they must allow the public to enter
     
  18. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    CC2000... respectfully isn't it just the opposite?!... Most 501(c)7 have to limit their access to the public, just to maintain their 501(c)7 status...

    However, there are numerous examples where you have a public range, operated by a private club...

    At one time, it was technically a potential felony just to drive through town to enter our trapshooting range... driving within 1000 ft of a school, driving on government property with a firearm, entering a park with a firearm; until you could actually get to the "designated range"... while never enforced, the laws existed...

    Further, we're required to comply with non-smoking laws which require folks to maintain a 15' distance to a public building entrance, general park department rules concerning lightning, accident reporting and always maintaining some public access. Our property is subject to Federal ADA access requirements for the building (doors, ramp access, restrooms) range and parking.

    The flip side is that public traffic lets us gleen fresh blood for our membership and revenue dollars for the operation!

    best regards,

    Jay
     
  19. sidfishez2

    sidfishez2 TS Member

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    Well, on Jan 1, 2012,the day this law goes into effect, I will be watching the Rose Parade in Pasadena CA. I wonder how many equestrian riders withe their expensive silver studded outfits will be packing Mattel Fanner 50s or orange colored plastic guns in their holsters.

    Is a TV or movie shoot on city streets qualify as a public place?


    I am sure things will get more interesting,

    Dick S.
     
  20. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    If you have a CCW permit, you went through training, and with an empty gun and a pervert is trying to rape your wife, or children, you just watch, or beat him with the empty handgun, what good is an empty handgun?

    Read American Rifleman about prevented attacks by armed citizens.

    Gary Bryant Licensed CCW Holder
    Dr.longshot
     
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