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== IRAQ WAR: COST / BENEFITS ANALYSIS ==

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by GW22, Dec 17, 2011.

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  1. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    I always knew better than to trust draft-dodgers like Bush and Cheney, but when Colin Powell stood before the UN and lied his @ss off about the "mountain of evidence" against Iraq I was the first one to say "Launch the Tomahawks and roll the tanks." I got fooled by that scumbag but in any case, at least on paper, the Iraq war is now "OVER." Let's all take an honest look at the cost and benefits:

    COSTS:

    4,400 US soldiers dead (reported combat & non-combat).

    32,000 US soldiers wounded.

    Approximately 3,000 US soldier suicides (actual number very hard to determine).

    $825 Billion in direct costs (paid by us, our kids and our grandkids).

    $500 Billion in medical costs and disability for veterans.

    Mental anguish of knowing we rebuilt the infrastructure of yet another country while our own deteriorates.

    Saddam Hussein, a secular leader, no longer controlling the Muslim kooks in Iraq or the animals in Iran.

    Exposure of some formerly secret U.S. military technology.

    Thousands of innocent civilian deaths in Iraq.

    BENEFITS:

    Hundreds of definite terrorists killed.

    Tens of thousands of Muslim extremist America-haters killed and prevented from breeding.

    Refinement of U.S. military technology and killing power.

    Inflicting fear in our enemies around the world.

    Invaluable battle and leadership experience for soldiers who remain in the military.

    Mid-east oil not being controlled by Saddam Hussein.

    Jobs created building armaments and rebuilding Iraq (complex benefits argument).

    The emotional "warm fuzzy" and outright fun of seeing Saddam Hussein get extracted from a filthy spider hole by U.S. soldiers and hanged by his own people.

    The moral pleasure and good karma of slaughtering Uday and Qusay Hussein (we may have even made God smile with that one).

    The outrageous hilariousness of Iraqi Information Minister "Baghdad Bob" on TV denying that America was taking over Baghdad as his map literally shook from the rumbling of our tanks and bombing (I LOVED that guy!).

    The capture of Hussein's personal Browning Hi-Power pistol and gifting of it to G.W. Bush (despite his perhaps not being bright enough to shoot it). Wow, what a collector piece that is! Even Iowa Gene would appraise that baby in the hundreds of dollars.

    -Gary
     
  2. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    There are no US Military in Baghdad!


    [​IMG]
     
  3. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    550 Tons of yellowcake that wasn't used on us.
     
  4. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Stokinpls:

    Come on. If you heard Powell's UN speech and remember the administration's propaganda, you know that's weak sauce.

    -Gary
     
  5. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Rick, What do do mean by "IF" we are being enslaved by an evil government?

    I think we're already occupied!
     
  6. lots of 24's

    lots of 24's Member

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    Did we win?
     
  7. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Now there's a question.

    -Gary
     
  8. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    <i>"I always knew better than to trust draft-dodgers like Bush...."</i>

    Spoken like a true liberal.
     
  9. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    I've never cast a vote for a Democrat for President in my life. Stop being so emotional and use your brain once in a while. W's daddy kept him out of the sh!t and covered his @ss for the months he went missing. Read a little.

    -Gary
     
  10. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    (Reedited per John Galt's reply)

    GW22, stop being a cheerleader for Dan Rather.

    The F-102 was serving in combat in Vietnam at the time Bush
    enlisted to become an F-102 pilot. In fact, pilots from the 147th FIG of the Texas ANG were
    routinely rotated to Vietnam for combat duty under a program called "Palace Alert" from 1968 to 1970.

    Palace Alert was an Air Force program that sent qualified F-102 pilots from the ANG to bases in Europe
    or southeast Asia for periods of three to six months for frontline duty.

    Fred Bradley, a friend of Bush's who was also serving in the Texas ANG, reported that he and Bush
    inquired about participating in the Palace Alert program. However, the two were told by a superior,
    MAJ Maurice Udell, that they were not yet qualified since they were still in training
    and did not have the 500 hours of flight experience required. Furthermore, ANG veteran
    COL William Campenni, who was a fellow pilot in the 111th FIS at the time,
    told the Washington Times that Palace Alert was winding down and not accepting new applicants....

    ...
    The point of this discussion is that the military record of George W. Bush deserves a fair treatment.

    Bush has been criticized for avoiding service in Vietnam, though the evidence proves that
    the Texas Air National Guard and its F-102 pilots where serving in Vietnam while Bush was in training.

    Bush has been criticized for using his family influence to obtain his assignment,
    but the evidence shows that he successfully completed every aspect of the more than
    two years of training required of him.

    Bush has been criticized for pursuing a safe and plush position as a fighter pilot,
    but the evidence indicates the F-102 was a demanding aircraft whose pilots regularly risked their lives.

    Bush has also been criticized for deserting the Guard before his enlistment was complete,
    but the evidence shows he was honorably discharged eight months early because his position
    was being phased out...
     
  11. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    Actually Bush flew the F102, not the 104 "widowmaker". The 102 is similar to the 106 but has a less powerful engine. Both were used as air defense interceptors in the old ADC (Air Defense Command).

    Of course, Bush isn't a war hero like Obummer.
     
  12. WS-1

    WS-1 Banned User Banned

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    Or Gary:)
     
  13. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    No I certainly never claimed to be a war hero. But I can say that my daddy never got me OUT of any obligations or INTO any colleges I could otherwise get into.

    If you want a war hero, look up his daddy.

    By the way, I've got no major problem with GW. He was a very likable guy and did incredibly well considering the brain God gave him. At least he didn't graduate in the bottom 1% of his class like brain-dead McCain. I like that GW was a marathon runner, owned guns, had a good sense of humor and that he got the last laugh after Saddam tried to get his father assassinated. But unlike many conservatives, I don't feel the need to kid myself about who and what he really is.

    For God's sake, why is it so hard for people to just be HONEST about things? Do any of you truthfully believe that W was a serious soldier or that he possessed the intellect to get into Yale and Harvard without family influence? Is it even possible for anyone remotely educated and aware to believe that? If so, do you personally have any Ivy League friends? I happen to, and I've taken graduate classes taught by several others, and whatever you'd say about them good or bad there's no mistaking their brainpower for Bush's. And they don't say "nook-u-lar." EVER.

    -Gary
     
  14. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The one being dishonest is the one shoveling Dan Rather's agenda that Bush was a draft dodger.
     
  15. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Brian: I never once mentioned Dan Rather or his phony document. Why must you so often try to attach false connections/premises to those who disagree with you? Why can't you argue on facts and merit? Or simply stay out of debates you can't deal with honestly?

    -Gary
     
  16. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Again, I never said I "hated" bush and I never claimed I was a war hero or that I could have been President. I never said W was as "devious" Obama or compared him to that phony Kerry. I never said any of that. I'd have a beer with W. That's who he is -- an average guy you'd have a beer with. Nothing more, nothing less. Why pretend otherwise?

    Maybe calling W a draft dodger like Cheney and Rumsfeld was an overstatement. At least Bush kind of served. OK? But if he wasn't a draft dodger, he wasn't that far removed from being one and he sure as hell wasn't cut from the cloth of his father. His dad was the real deal, he wasn't. Can we agree on that?

    But I still ask - WHY, WHY, WHY is it necessary to use false premises and dishonest associations in order to debate with me? Just disagree with me and defend your argument honestly like a gentleman and I will treat you respectfully. Kit (WS-1) thinks I'm full of sh!t half the time, but at least he makes an honest argument and I'd be the first one to shake his hand and buy him a beer (if he drank).

    I understand making-up crap for satire, but why BS and why deny reality in real intellectual discussions?

    -Gary
     
  17. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    In the mean time, let's get back to the point of the thread:

    How do the BENEFITS stack up against the COSTS of the Iraq war?

    Did we really "win"? Is it possible to say? Is it too soon to say? If Iran become dominant in the region, will your view change?

    A lot of good young people died and our grandkids will have to pay off the debt, so we should at least ponder whether it was worth the cost and whether we learned anything.

    -Gary
     
  18. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    gw22....I know quite a few National Guard and Reserve component soldiers that would enjoy shoving your draft dodger attitude up your ass.

    You tell others to read up......maybe you are the one that is the ignorant one when it comes to reserve service. Ya can start by reading up on the 37th Div...The highest decorated soldiers of WWII..maybe a little on the Philippines, the NG and Reserve soldiers that are the ones that have made up the bulk of the boots in the middle east.

    You should do a little research on those that have died in this BS exercise and find how many of them are actually reserve component soldiers.....you may be shocked.....I know of some NG soldiers with over 4&5 tours.

    NO....qw22....if I were you I'd keep my mouth shut. For someone that has not served.....YOU sure run your mouth alot.

    BTW....the total cost of Iraq W/legacy costs is estimated at 6 TRILLION......I hope all you that think it's so cool to kill people and waste our youth in the process are happy.
     
  19. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    GW22, you want to talk about honesty? You're sprewing the same false liberal crap that Dan Rather did about Bush. There's nothing honest about that.

    And thanks for crapping on National Guardsmen, some of whom did not come back from WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam or the Middle East, or those killed in training, operational or flight accidents, by calling them draft dodgers.

    You may claim not to be a liberal, but your actions, particularly your championing a liberal tax and spend gun banner for president, are showing your latent liberal tendencies.
     
  20. Borg

    Borg Member

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    Gary,

    I have to agree with most of the folks here. If you are not a Bush hater, what the hell is the point you are trying to make? It is a done deal, good or bad get the hell over it. Bush was in no way the best President we have had, but I would take him over and over again if it would get the America hater out of office.

    Take it easy Francis.
    Peter
     
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