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Interesting Open Carry Issue

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by dmarbell, Jun 13, 2011.

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  1. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Yesterday, I was at our club shooting, and was relaxing afterwards with some friends. Our monthly board of directors meeting was also yesterday. The vice-president sat down with us and said he had an interesing encounter.

    We have trap, skeet, 5-stand, archery, pistol range, and a lake for fishing. The pistol range rules are strict. No loaded handguns are allowed to be carried on the property, with two exceptions: on the firing line when the line is hot, and concealed carry by those with proper permits.

    Well, a non-member showed up with a loaded revolver on his hip. He had a fistfull of 2nd Amendment brochures, touting the benefits of open carry. Our VP told him he was welcome to hand them out, but club rules prohibited open carry. The visitor told the VP that he could open carry legally in NC. The VP replied that he was on private property, and the property owners did not allow open carry. He was told to unload the handgun, or take it off and lock it in his car, or leave the property. Visitor called the VP an asshole, stomped around some, and got in his vehicle and left.

    We are an obvious 2nd Amendment supporting club, as evidenced by a trap field, four skeet fields, and a five-stand all full of shotgun wielding folks of various ages, and both genders when visitory showed up. (The pistol range is being renovated, and was shut down for that.)

    Was this a good way for the visitor to further his agenda? I would think that the first rule of open carry ethics would be to respect areas which don't allow open carry, including private property owners and their rules.

    Danny
     
  2. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Seeing as it is private property, and those rules apply, it does not matter what his agenda was. Those are the rules, for obvious safety reasons. Does not matter what the public law is. Then the club should allow you to load your shotgun for the next round, and put it in the rack and wait for the next round. Does not make to much sence does it. It is the radical gun owners that give the anti-gun people ammunition to take them away.

    He should have said he understood and unloaded the gun. As far as having to put it away, that was a little extreme. After all, there are many unloaded, exposed guns at a gun club.
     
  3. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Open carry is just asking for trouble. If I am in a situation where I need to use a handgun the last thing I want is to reveal that I am armed. Open carry will only serve to escalate a situation.

    Jim Skeel
     
  4. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Danny, I seriously doubt a man carrying a handgun openly at a gun club was a threat. What he did was against the clubs rule of open carry but what if some scrupulous character turned up with one hidden with ill intentions on his mind? I'd damn sure want my .45 handy in such a case, loaded to full capacity even if it is against club rules! Same thing with the super market parking lot where Congressman Gifford was shot and 6 others murdered! Too bad for those folks that no one had any means of protection from a mad man that day too! Your GC could've been in that same situation with your guns locked away??

    Hap
     
  5. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Hap,

    Try reading the first post again. If you have a permit you can carry it at the club. HMB
     
  6. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Harry, I read that too. My point was a mad man carrying one with bad intentions won't pay much attention to any rule?? Better to be pissed off than pissed on?

    Hap
     
  7. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    There are places that even Conceal Carry Permits are no good. If it is private property and they have a rule against it, you either obey or you don't come in. I think its pretty cut and dry. Rules are Rules. That doesn't mean you or i have to agree but we must follow the rules of the private property if we wish to enter.

    Hap--I agree with what your say'n but it doesn't give us rule breaking rights. I think a gun club would be the worst place a person would try to pull a stunt like you suggested. My Trap gun will break more than clay targets. Just say'n.

    If the man was truely a Gun lover just trying to spread the word, he would have obeyed the rules to accomplish his task. Instead he showed his true colors.
     
  8. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Stl Flyn, the take it off and put in away was an "or." Unload, or put away, or leave.

    Hap, I would estimate our club has 60-70% CCW permits. That means there were 10-15 people at the club with a handgun concealed and loaded. There were another 10-15 with a loaded handgun in a vehicle a few feet away (not locked up, we don't search members' or visitors' vehicles), and 30+ with shotguns handy and ammo on them or nearby.

    There was no threat, but that's not the point.

    Danny
     
  9. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Actually all the responses, that state the law, are wrong-

    Each jurisdiction is different and each law is different.

    In general though if you can restrict carrying into a private establishment (notice the word into) then if the establishment posts that policy it can then ask the individual to leave-- if the individual doesnt leave the only recourse would be to call the police and attempt to have them removed under some type of trespass theory.

    Consult a local attorney in your jurisdiction

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  10. Robb

    Robb Member

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    Rules were posted?
     
  11. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    It may be that your club needs to review its rules on open carry. I am not sure that I see any "safety" or other difference between someone carrying a loaded handgun concealed, and someone carrying a loaded handgun openly and secured in a holster (obviously, if the individual were to draw the weapon and/or brandish it, that would be a problem, but the same would also apply to a concealed weapon) The potential is the same in either case. So I personally do not see any "cause" for banning open carry versus concealed carry.

    That being said, as long as your club does have the rule banning open carry, then the "visitor" was certainly obligated to follow club rules. Not only legally, but simple courtesy to the club where he was a visitor would dictate
    obeying whatever rules are/were in effect and when pointed out by a club official. JMHO

    Jim R
     
  12. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    I didn't read all the posts here. I feel if your are openly carrying a gun you are stirring the pot and looking for trouble. I have a CCW permit but I will not open carry simply because I will not feed the fire of anti gunners. They will look at that as a crazy person with a gun. Keep it hiden and keep quiet till you need to make some noise. The less people know the better you are.
     
  13. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    I should add you can't legally be "visiting" our property, without being the guest of a member, except 11-3 Saturdays and 1-5 Sundays, on those days that the club is considered "open."

    I understand the posting issue. We don't have the rule posted. But posted or not, when told of our rules, refusal to comply or leave would constitute tresspass at that point, I believe.

    Danny
     
  14. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    Michigan is an open carry state as well. More and more people are learning that we here can open carry. The issue is, he was on private property. With that, he needed to follow the wished of the property owner.

    We have people here that open carry everywhere. Some with issues by people "afraid or have a chilling effect",and some that have no problems what so ever. I believe you should carry anyway you feel comfortable.

    People here that say you ONLY conceal carry is wrong, in my view.

    Trying to CC a full size service pistol w/ shorts and a summer T, is like trying to hide an elephant behind a fat chick.

    If open carry was such an issue to people, the police would all conceal carry.
    Yes, it's a deterrent to the bad guys. They want a victim, not an opponent.

    Jerbear
     
  15. BIG JIM IN BAKERSFIELD

    BIG JIM IN BAKERSFIELD TS Member

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    In Commiefornia, if you have a CCW you must carry the gun conceled. You can not open carry the loaded gun in a public location. If you expose the gun to intimidate someone, you can be arrested for "brandising". You can only expose it in the event of an emergency. A friend of mine owns a bail bonds business, and this is what he has explained to me. BIG JIM
     
  16. quartering

    quartering Active Member

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    jim, i agree: open carry only works if everyone carries. the only thing americans care to open carry now are iphones.
    hmb, i reread it and it still says concealed.
    danny, hmb's comment begs the question: do your rules allow non members to carry concealed? if no, how would you know?
    anyway, i wonder why the second amendment genius didn't just go back to his car and put on his photo journalists vest and then go about his proselytizing? good luck with it
     
  17. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    That's why it sucks to live in commiefornia. I also understand you have to carry an open handgun without the magazine in the magwell.

    From Handgunlaws.us Open carry is becoming more common in California. Carrying an unloaded firearm openly is legal. Carrying a concealed loaded magazine even without a firearm present can get you arrested.

    Now that's just plain stupid.


    Jerbear
     
  18. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    Robert A. Heinlein's "Beyond This Horizon" provides an interesting take on an "open carry" society.


    [​IMG]
     
  19. BIG JIM IN BAKERSFIELD

    BIG JIM IN BAKERSFIELD TS Member

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    So, some of you would welcome a stranger onto your property with a loaded gun without any aprehension, interesting. You have more faith/trust in strangers, than most people would. Personaly, I carry a box of 00 buck when I go shooting, just in case. Yes Iam perinoid and... prepared...BIG JIM
     
  20. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Our rules are a little bit complicated. They don't distinguish among members, visitors, and guests regarding concealed carry. Handguns that are being shot at our range must be brought in in a box, bag or case, and unloaded. If you want to shoot your concealed carry gun, you have to unload it and unconceal it before it's brought onto the property. No guns may be carried openly in a holster unless it's being used in a match.

    Our club is in the middle of an industrial complex. One stray bullet above our berms could mean the end of our club.

    The rules were written to minimize the chances of a stray bullet being fired as a loaded gun is uncased.

    The point of the thread is not to scrutinize our rules, but to analyze the attitude of the visitor.

    Danny
     
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