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INTEGRITY, HONESTY....IN ATA???

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by yendor12, Apr 13, 2012.

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  1. yendor12

    yendor12 Member

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    Being a 3rd year shooter and reading and learning from everyone on TS.com, I have come to love this sport and support it at often as I can. Each time I shoot, my competitive side comes out wanting to score the best possible.
    It is interesting to read the articles on sandbagging. I have seen it, know why people do it and wonder how they can go home at night and feel good about it. From an early age my parents taught me to respect others, tell the truth and be honest.
    Not really understanding the impact of sandbagging, 2 years ago I believed that everyone I shot against was trying to shoot their best. I have learned differently this past week.
    I was privileged to shoot at a club where in the past 2 years I was the underdog and rarley come close to the better shooters. This particular afternoon the squad that is always tops at this club (95 and up), I won buy a margin of 8 targets at minimum. I can understand one guy having an off day and shoot sub-par or even worse, but all five? It wansn't till I returned home that I realized what they were doing. I even went as far as telling my wife I should drop targets as well (being sarcastic) as a way to lower my average also...Her next comment made me realize that I am an honest person, and respect myself as a man as well as the sport. She asked me if my son came to me and asked if it were ok to lower scores to have an advantage (Sandbaging) would I approve of it?
    Where did the integrity and honesty go in people, in this sport and in America?
    I may not ever win at a large event in my class, but I will never lower my scores to try to win at a lower class.

    Good luck to all this year.
    Rod - Ohio
     
  2. minnship8

    minnship8 Well-Known Member

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    When I was a young boss, I was a terrible boss. The reason was, that I expected everyone else to have the same work ethic I did. Do your best, treat the company as if you owned it, etc. I became a better boss when I realized that my expectations were unrealistic.

    I can only control what I do and how I react. If the guy in my mirror is good, all is good. People cheat for all kinds of reasons. Money and ego are the big two. I've won fishing tournaments after polygraphs where the first place team got booted. One was a team tournament for a paltry $2500 first prize.

    All that being said, I don't have any problem shaming a cheat. Right to their face, in front of as many people as possible. I also won't get all upset over it, it won't affect my mirror.

    When someone reveals their character, believe them.

    Regards,

    Chip Porter
     
  3. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Congradulations on your decision to be straight. Nowadays it is almost accepted practice to 'cheat' in all of life. I don't agree with it I would rather lose and know I did my best than have to cheat to win. Mike.
     
  4. SPACE GUN

    SPACE GUN Member

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    I can truly say I have never missed a target on purpose and never will. Most shooters that I shoot with feel the same. I sleep very good at night.
     
  5. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Gee, an honest individual with limited experience comes on here and tells us sandbagging really exists. Congratulations! Makes me wonder why so many posters deny it!!
     
  6. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Must be a lot of very wealthy people if they will pay for shells and shooting for a chance to beat up on lesser shooters.

    I don't buy it. Yes, I agree but I think the problem is 80 per cent overstated.

    HM
     
  7. dds4horse

    dds4horse Member

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    As a very new shooter (6 mos) I am climbing the ranks and improve every week. Last week I earned a half yrd (only for a half hour as the club called and said I was acctually 2nd). The past couple weeks I have been placing well and actually winning $ (trust me far from the break even point). Now its got me thinking, am I doing better because the other guys are sandbagging? All I can say I am honing my skills of breaking targets, if you are practicing MISSING targets you may just have a tough time learning to hit them again..

    os
     
  8. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Yendor I would be proud to shoot with you, personally I feel integrity is the best asset a shooter or individual can have. When I go home at night I know I did my best.

    Years ago at a large calcutta a shooter told his wife Gary is a good buy he will not throw targets because someone bought him. I overheard him tell her that and she bought me in the calcutta and won large sum of money.

    I was shooting in a calcutta and 50 was high 48 was second there were no 49s but there could be one coming in, I still broke the 50 tied for high and no 49 came in, I look at it this was 50% of first is better than 100 % of 2nd any day as it could have been 50% of second possible score by throwing one away.

    Integrity is something to be admired about a person.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  9. OldGoat

    OldGoat Well-Known Member

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    With "rigged" outcomes in too many instances, it kinda makes an honest person seriously wonder why he/she would wager their hard-earned dollars on such games. Shooting "targets only" is a viable approach which an honest man can adopt and enjoy the games, leaving the anxiety and suspicions of the "rigged" games to those who enjoy wagering and too frequently losing their money. At the gambling casinos, they at least let you know that, over time, you will lose...they openly tell you they only pay back maybe 95% of money wagered with them. If you don't mind losing in a "rigged" game, wager away...after all, it is your money, but don't whine about losing when you have such suspicions. Regards, Ed
     
  10. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    What Rod describes does exist but from my experiences it is a very small minority that actually play the sandbagging ticket. No reason to loose faith in the integrity of the majority of shooters or worse yet lower yourself to the sandbagger level.

    Real skill will trump the gamesmen all day long.
     
  11. Jim Porter

    Jim Porter Well-Known Member

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    I agree that sandbagging is overstated. I shoot atrgets only and have never missed one on purpose. The sandbagging topic that hardly ever comes up is that no matter if you do it, when the time comes to performe you still have to performe perfectly. Some might try to slant the field but I wonder if they really have an advantage when the score HAS to be posted.
     
  12. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    congratulations! on your shooting and your decision to be the best you can. Best of luck to you in your trapshooting career. Best order of conduct is to be a leader by doing! let the others fall short their own way and let them see what it gets them. a hollow victory has no merit, no thrill! the hard fought fight to be the best if filled with ups and downs and is the most coveted when achieved by constant effort! shoot your best and enjoy the rewards do you!
     
  13. OldGoat

    OldGoat Well-Known Member

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    The point that several have made re: whether "sandbagging" is or is not overstated is an excellent one! Everyone can hear the concerns about it on this forum...loud and clear; however; no one really knows the extent of it for sure... except for the ones who play the game that way. Anyway, we are all left to decide for ourselves how big or little the problem is. Regards, Ed
     
  14. reddbudd

    reddbudd Well-Known Member

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    I also have never missed a target on purpose and never will, but some days it sure looks like I do. Bud Edwards
     
  15. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

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    "Where did the integrity and honesty go in people, in this sport and in America"

    yendor12 : It is nothing new as it has been around since the beginning of trap shooting I imagine, if that is any consolation. I don't think thier are more shooters doing these days.

    Maybe if everyone called them for what they are it would at least make them think about, they are not sandbaggers, they are cheaters. But then they do not care what they are called, they do it for the cheap thrill of getting away with it.

    CM
     
  16. Laserwizard

    Laserwizard Member

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    While at the Williams County Good Friday shoot in Ohio I overheard a junior talking about sandbagging to drop his average so he can position himself for a couple wins at the State shoot this year.

    It's disturbing when you hear about adults doing it, but even more so when you hear juniors doing it already.
     
  17. Jason Hassler

    Jason Hassler Member

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    I don't know how many people sandbag but one is too many. They say integrity is what you would do if you knew you could never be caught. I can honestly say that I have never nor will I ever throw away targets. My desire is to shoot against the best shooters on the grounds and I don't care if I don't have a chance to win. Just the honor of shooting against the best is all I need.
     
  18. hfrogdogc

    hfrogdogc Member

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    Watch the BIG SHOOTS, every one breaks a 100 except D class. And some times they do. If they can do this an know they can,they should with all respect be at the top of the leader board.
     
  19. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    I have always felt that sandbaggers were idiots. Do the math. 1,000 targets of sandbagging to prevent a punch, yet still maintain your yardage has to cost over $500 with travel, shells and entry fees.

    The 2 yard gift from the ATA simply temps more to try it.
     
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