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Instructor or stock maker?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by need to shoot more, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. need to shoot more

    need to shoot more Active Member

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    Hello All,

    I want to have my KX-5 adjusted so it fits me as best as possible with the comb and point of impact. I do have a adjustable butt for the gun but not installed yet.Do I attend a pro instructor class or go to a stock maker and let that person set me up? I belive its a toss up costs are pretty similiar, both people have a good reputation any thoughts.
    Thank You,

    Jim
     
  2. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    The stock maker can do any modifiations

    The instructor would have to send you to the stock maker
     
  3. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    How you shoot - your shooting form (gun mount, stance, weight distribution, head/neck/body posture) along with your individual size and shape, affect the stock dimensions that allow or prevent you from using a good shooting form.

    An instructor can teach you good shooting form but may or may not know what stock dimensions need to be changed to allow you to use it.

    The best stock fitters (different from stock makers) know what a good shooting form is. They will explain the form and can change your stock's dimensons (if necessary) so you can use a good form. However, the stock dimensions would be fitted to your size and shape AND the good shooting form. If you forget the form, the stock would no longer fit you as well as it should.

    Rollin
     
  4. Smoke 1

    Smoke 1 Banned User Banned

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    NOBODY knows more about how to fix and set up a stock than Rollin Oswald. This guy is so freaking modest he doesn't even mention that he has written a best selling book completely dedicated to this subject . This is a rare individual who really wants to educate verses making a lot of money by touting his master piece of a book. Here's a guy who doesn't keep his secrets hidden to make a few bucks on his book. He is always willing to readily give info to fellow trapshooters. Rollin, you are one of the rare breed that makes this forum worth visiting. You'll never hear this guy write anything political. He just sticks to what this forum is all about and that is the preservation of our beloved sport. Rollin, more people should aspire to be like you. I'm sure you sleep good at night.
     
  5. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    ZGUN,

    Thank you for your generous compliments. They are sincerely appreciated.

    In addition to making me feel good by helping other shooters, I remember what I suffered more than fifty years ago when I began hunting (birds, with very limited success). I try to help others avoid or cure the problems that I faced.

    It took years of experimentation and making Wenig DIY stocks before I really knew what I was doing and had identified what caused the problems that I and many other shooters tolerate. It is the reason I began writing about stock fitting and shooting form fifteen years ago.

    Rollin
     
  6. need to shoot more

    need to shoot more Active Member

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    I own the book its a good read. I have went too Kay O and Harlin class and now considering Nora Ross or going to Joe Goldberg for help they are/will be local to me soon.

    Jim
     
  7. Patrick Haskins

    Patrick Haskins Member

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    If you are undecided what you need, visit Dennis DeVault for a stock fitting and instruction. He is back on the road with his clinics which include a fitting, I believe. Or, you can visit him at his shop and have him adjust your gun to you, including installing an adjustable butt plate while you are there.
    Pat
     
  8. steele

    steele TS Member

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    Rollin, Are you still making stocks? I don't think I have ever seen one of yours. Butch from Pgh
     
  9. almira_hotshot

    almira_hotshot TS Member

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    Rollin, I own a DT-10 and I'm having issues with the weight, is there any way to lighten it up?
     
  10. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    There are few that can get the job done. Stockmakers that are not fitters won't work! Same for the other way around. Dennis Devault is an exception he does the instruction and fitting and has an in house Crew building stocks as he directs. Besides Dennis There are few that do all of it.

    I'm actually the only one I know that is 100% hands on start to finish: fitting, instruction, coaching and stockmaking. If you cant find a local stockmaker and gunfitter than you should invest in a fitting with someone like Dennis or myself. This is even more important if your measurements vary greatly from factory or you have vision issues.

    Joe
     
  11. Bernie K

    Bernie K Member

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    Chris Vendel, CRV Custom Arms. Chris is an All American that gives classes and is one of the best stock makers around. He can fit you to a T. Get the best in one stop.
     
  12. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    MUZZLEBLAST,

    I no longer make or fit stocks since I sold my house and moved into an appartment. I did not make stocks from blanks; I ordered do-it-yourself stocks with my choice of dimensions from Wenig. What I miss even more than working with stocks is making cedar strip canoes and aircraft sitka spruce, bent shaft paddles.

    almira_hotshot,

    You have several options: shorten the barrels to 24", reduce the LOP 2 or 3 inches, or more realistically, have the barrels backbored and if necessary, remove some wood from the interior of the stock to maintain the balance, which will probably not be necessary.


    Listen to Joe Goldberg. He knows what he's talking about.

    (I am not familiar with the work of Chris Vendal.)

    Rollin
     
  13. Smoke 1

    Smoke 1 Banned User Banned

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    Last I heard Chris vendell will fit you and then farms out the stock to WENIG to make.
    You want a new stock that fits perfectly? Go to wenig but you will wait months until it is finished. I know from experience.
     
  14. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Read Rollin's book. And call Dennis. He's very approachable. See link above.

    It sounds like there are some other very good options listed here as well.
     
  15. JPM

    JPM Member

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    If a gun is correctly fit for one discipline (say trap) then are those dimensions exactly correct for other disciplines such as skeet, sporting clays, bird hunting, etc? Or is gunfit specific to the sport? JPM
     
  16. Bernie K

    Bernie K Member

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    Chris fits you and orders the blank of your choice of wood and grain choice from Wenig. He then works the blank to your dementions and lets you try it before checkering or finish to be sure it's to your liking. He dose the checkering and finishing.
     
  17. juststartin'

    juststartin' Member

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    I received my stock from Wenig back in less than 6 weeks...
     
  18. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    JPM,

    Stock fitting is related to the shooting discipline only slightly. Examples: for hunting and for FITASC sporting clays, the stock may be slghtly shorter to facilitate quick mounts. The recoil pad may also be designed with rounded top and bottom surfaces for the same reason.

    Trap stocks tend to be slightly longer than field stocks.

    Trap targets are rising targets. For that reason, guns designed for trap shooting have stocks with slightly higher combs to position the eye a little higher relative to the rib to make the guns shoot higher. Skeet guns have combs that are not quite a high and field guns usually have lower combs to make them shoot flat, with half the pattern above and half below the gun's point of aim (looking along the surface of the rib with no surface showing).

    What is most important is that the stock allows the shooter to shoot with a normal head ane neck posture with no need to lean the neck forward lower the cheek down to the comb.

    Also, the the stock length should allow a nose to thumb separation of no mroe than about 1.5" and a comb height that allows the shooter to look along or very slightly down-onto the rib with moderate vertical cheek paressure.

    The eye should align with the center of the rib witn normal lateral cheek pressure to the side of the stock.

    Tne end of the stock - the recoil pad or butt plate - should apply even pressure, top ot bottom, to the shoulder with the gun mounted and the barrel raised to normal shooting height. This is the "pitch" dimension, which is close to 90 degrees.

    Rollin
     
  19. JPM

    JPM Member

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    Rollin, Thanks, very much, for this information. JPM
     
  20. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Rollin has it mostly right but I think some clarification is in order.

    eye hight relative to rib could be misleading and for some could be interprited as fitting a gun to where you aim instead of the correct method of fitting and regulating a gun to where you look. You need to adjust both a rib and stock for best performance, Slightly over the barrels but not looking up a hill is ideal.

    The 1.5 inch seperation from thumb to nose is only a starting point not a hard fast rule. One of the best Trap Shooters of all time shoots with the thumb touching his nose. If your over 6'6" its likely that the distance could be greater than the recomended max of 1.5"

    Rollin has provided many with lots of good information on stock design however some take what he writes as to literal or concrete.

    Im my experience there are around 20% of shooters that defy the guidelines; They will not be able to self fit or adjust their gun by the conventional wisdom. Thank God or I would not have half of the work I do.

    There are also differences in the sports that may make balance a much greater issue than the measurements.

    I need to add that if a maker has only one style of stock that they make and start with a version of that stock then you are not getting a true custom stock. Not everyone should be shooting Kay or Harland's stock and to make every one of your stocks from a particular pattern with slight modifications is not a custom fit it's just slight alterations.

    Joe