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info needed for AR15

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by white rattler, Dec 20, 2009.

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  1. white rattler

    white rattler Member

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    i've been reading about Colt AR15s (traditional full length, no folding stuff) and have some questions. of all the models that have been released, are some better than others, example, matched grade, forward assist. Is Colt still producing or are the ones on the market all 'knock-offs'.
     
  2. andybull

    andybull Active Member

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    Noveske, Knights Armament, JP Rifles, Larue, Lwrc. From these all you need is to know how much you want to spend.
    Andy
     
  3. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Those are the upper tier, and are expensive.

    The next tier is Rock River, Bushmaster, Colt and DPMS.

    The Remington R15 is made by Bushmaster (Remington, Bushmaster and DPMS are all owned by Cerberus). The R15 is designed as a hunting rifle, so it fulfills a niche. I have one and it is very accurate.

    The lower tier are Olympic Arms, American Spirit Arms (if they're even still around), and some others.

    If you're looking for a match rifle, Bushmaster makes one that is used by a pretty high percentage of high power shooters. It's a good, solid, accurate rifle that won't break the bank. The link goes to the target rifle page for Bushmaster. Scroll down to the two DCM-XR rifles. These come in two basic configurations - with an A2 carry handle (solid) and an A3 carry handle (detachable).

    Rock River also makes a good DCM rifle, and it has a Wilson stainless match barrel for not much more money than the Bushmaster. These have a solid reputation as well.
     
  4. oz

    oz Active Member

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    try ar15.com you will find all the info you will ever need there. oz
     
  5. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Take AR15.com with a grain of salt. Lots of good info, but also some bad info.
     
  6. white rattler

    white rattler Member

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    So my next question is does Colt still make and sell AR15s and if they do what model would I look for. And is the Colt a good one. Thanks Trevor Dawe.
     
  7. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Here's the link to Rock River's DCM rifle.
     
  8. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Here's the link to the Colt rifles. They have quite a following. Colt does not make a state of the art DCM rifle. For example, their match ARs lack a free floated forend. (The A2 stocks are on a special free float tube that Bushmaster and Rock River uses. This means when a sling is used it does not deflect the point of impact.)
     
  9. trench12

    trench12 TS Member

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    this is all you will ever need
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Smith & Wesson also makes AR15s. The machining is done in house, but I dunno who actually makes the forgings. These have proven to be competent rifles. S&W does not make a DCM rifle. But they do make a truckload of variations on the M4.
     
  11. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Remington has some very nice hunting AR15s in various configurations. The R15 22" rifle in 204 Ruger or 223 Rem is their basic rifle (see pic). I have the fixed stock 18" carbine version. Very accurate. Remington also makes a Hunter model in .30 Remington AR, and a 24" .223 Varmint model. The .223 guns are chambered for .223, not for 5.56. They aren't designed for shooting military ammunition, but to get the most accuracy out of the .223 cartridge, keeping their their purpose of being a very accurate hunting rifle.
     
  12. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    trench12, what is the sleeve or collar on your rifle between the gas block and muzzle brake?
     
  13. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    The link above will give you an idea of what is available in the Colt line.
     
  14. trench12

    trench12 TS Member

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    Brian that is the mounting collar on which to mount the hush can, the top is a real Mk12 mod01 SPR clamped on a RRA lower. The scope is a Hertel&Ruess 2.5x12x40
     
  15. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    OK, so what would you guys suggest for the paranoid one looking at all of these AR variations without breaking the bank.. Is a target bbl neccessary? A flat top for electronics, but also have the need for open sights? 16" bbl? Must the bbl be free floating?

    I do believe from previous topics the 5.56cal with a chrome bore and chamber are a must.

    Starting with a bare-bones gun, what options do our brave men and women have on their weapons.
     
  16. trench12

    trench12 TS Member

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    How big is this bank you don't want to break? I would say the thing to do is hit a few gun shows and handle the ones that you are interested in. Its always cheaper to get it the way you what it rather than getting something basic and buying the stuff to get it to the way you desire. TG
     
  17. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    OK, so what would you guys suggest for the paranoid one looking at all of these AR variations without breaking the bank..

    <i>Is a target bbl neccessary?</i><br>
    For plinking and close range work, no. For long range target shooting or hunting coyotes on down, yes.

    <i>A flat top for electronics, but also have the need for open sights?</i><br>
    There are different ways to address the need for both optics and BUIS (BackUp Iron Sights). Some electronic sights are short enough that folding iron sights can be installed. For some sights, like red dots or EOTech, you can also use fixed iron sights and "cowitness" them with the iron sights, being exactly superimposed, or the dot can hover just above the iron sights. Or, if using a scope that prevents the use of a BUIS, the scope can be attached with quick release rings, and the iron sight can be swapped on in a similar fashion.

    <i>16" bbl?</i><br>
    Short barrels are great for maneuverability in tight spaces. Drawbacks are more blast, flash, higher bolt velocity, and less tolerance of problems (it's easier to make a reliable AR rifle than a reliable carbine). Another issue for iron sights is that generally the short sight radius leads to less user accuracy. (Some 16" carbines, like the Bushmaster Dissipator, have the sights in the normal rifle location to get around this.) While not milspec, I like the mid-length carbine gas port setup. The gas port is moved two inches forward, halfway between a 16" carbine and 20" rifle. Gas pressure has dropped significantly at this point, resulting in less bolt velocity, and greater tolerance of ammo, etc. The Remington and Rock River, among other, have mid-length carbines.

    <i>Must the bbl be free floating?</i><br>
    Yes and no. The handguards themselves generally do not cause inaccuracy unless they put unusual pressure on the barrel. Free floating handguards are not subject to stress from bipods, slings, etc. I recommend free floating handguards for precision long range work. For close range work, the types that have Picatinny rails make it convenient to hang things like lasers, flashlights, etc.

    <i>I do believe from previous topics the 5.56cal with a chrome bore and chamber are a must.</i><br>
    I disagree. The most accurate AR15 barrels are NOT chrome lined, and they have .223 or Wylde (pronounced will-dee) chambers. The Wylde chamber is a compromise between 223 and 5.56 that gives better accuracy than a 5.56 chamber. Chroome chambers and barrels work best on guns that are subject to a lot of hard use, especially full auto. For the average AR15 user who cleans his guns on a regular basis, I don't think chrome chambers and barrels really provide all that much. In my opinion a better choice would be a stainless steel barrel.

    <i>Starting with a bare-bones gun, what options do our brave men and women have on their weapons.</i><br>
    Almost any option you can imagine. The AR15/M16/M4 is probably the most configurable firearm ever made. There are a good many optics ranging from scope to red dots to tritium to holographic, a multitude of iron sights, dozens of forends, dozens of buttstocks, dozens of pistol grips, numerous calibers, various barrel lengths, and even finishes. The EOTech and ACOG are very popular amongst our troops, along with some red dot sights as well. Many of these are optioned to work with night vision goggles.
     
  18. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Quality on a budget.... Check out Del-Ton.

    I was surprised at how well made their guns are. And they use a higher grade aluminum than some AR15 makers.
     
  19. Leo

    Leo Well-Known Member

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    Colt specifics on Service rifle A-2 style full sized AR type rifle From someone who actually bought one to shoot competitively:

    Standard barrel weight and heavy barrel. Heavy is better for accuracy because it does not flex when you use a shooting sling.

    1 in 9 twist vs 1 in 7. The 9 twist barrels will not reliably stablize a 75, 77 or 80 grain match bullet. Not a problem if you just want to blast away with cheap ammo, big problem if you want to compete at 200,300, and 600 yards on a National Match Rifle competition. Buy the 1 in 7 and shoot everything.

    COLT puts a stupid hardened block in their receiver to keep you from installing a machine gun trigger. It also keeps you from using many top grade 2 stage match triggers. It also is a problem with many adjustable single stage triggers.

    COLT uses a different sized pin in the lower receiver pivot holes so any aftermarket part must be special to use it.

    The Colt has a screw together front pivot pin that yoou need a screwdriver to complete a takedown. Bushmaster and others need no tools.

    The COLT rear sight adjusts in one MOA per click, many others are available with the finer 1/2 MOA or 1/4 MOA sights making it easier to get your group where you want it. This really only matters to a match shooter.

    Even with all those negatives, a COLT Heavy Barrel with a 1 in 7 twist barrel is very dependable and about as accurate as you will get out of a production rifle box.

    I fired Master level scores in National match competition, including the National Championships with a 1 in 7 twist COLT H-BAR. I just had to learn not to sling up too tight in the 600 yard prone matches so I would not warp anything enough to throw the sights off. I used a JP drop in triger and an aftermarket 1/2 x 1/2 MOA sight.

    After that I had a custom made upper made by Frank White at Compass Lake Engineering with a Kreiger barrel and custom chamber dimensions and set it on a Bushmaster lower with a Jewel match trigger. Then I started shooting High Master scores.

    All the extra I did would only matter to a Master level National Match shooter. The COLT Match H-Bar is a no fuss, out of the box product. If you like it and can accept the minor shortcomings, buy it.

    Good Luck
     
  20. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    And that brings up another issue... twist rate. As a generality, if you go to a faster twist than 1:9" you *may* run into issues with *some* of the lighter thin jacketed varmint bullets. Some shooters with 1:7" twists have reported having varmint bullets come apart a few feet out of the barrel from excessive rpm. This is why 1:9" is considered the all around ideal, since it stabilizes up to 62 to 65 grainers, yet works OK with bullets as light as 40 grainers. If you are going to shoot bullets heavier than 65 grains, that's when you should be looking at a 1:7" twist.
     
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