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In regards to classification

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 9point3, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    Last week there was a question regarding under classification. There was discussion about the classifier using the average on the card, the average of the last 500-1000 targets and so on.


    Is a shooter required to carry last season's average card so the classifier can look at the last 500-1000 targets(if the club is not using computer program to determine average)
     
  2. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I'd check the rulebook.

    Pages 19-20
     
  3. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a "no" to me
     
  4. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    The ATA has guidelines but not hard and fast rules. The guidelines say 1) If less than 500 targets in current year use last years average and known ability 2) Between 500 and 1000 targets, use current year or last year whichever is higher 3) Implied but not stated explicitly, more than 1000 targets use current years average and known ability.

    In PITA the rules are different: PITA for Singles use last 1000 targets shot and you are required to carry previous years card to verify average. PITA average for last 800 Doubles is used. In both associations known ability can override the averages and discretion of shoot management can override the average card. As you know 2014 target year averages are not shown on the ATA website until all the corrections are made for the 2013 Target Year. PITA does not make a big deal out of Target Year which incidentally starts November 1st. IMHO the PITA rules are more logical and are Not hard to follow.
     
  5. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, it is suggested to use last year's average in some cases. But there is no requirement to carry last season's card.
     
  6. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    True, you could not carry the card and shoot AAA for your first few events ...
     
  7. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    All the info that the ATA suggests a classifier follow is on the new card.
     
  8. Robb

    Robb Member

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    I can't believe the paper card is an issue. Every shooter that I have ever seen has a shell bag. If you don't have your new card yet put last years in your bag. Hell maybe your last 10 cards. Shooters without a card should shoot penalty just like the new guy with no targets. Maybe the rule book needs a common sense chapter.
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "Shooters without a card should shoot penalty just like the new guy with no targets. Maybe the rule book needs a common sense chapter."

    Well Robb that is already in the rulebook I quote:

    "4. The Average Card is intended to provide classification personnel at registered shoots with current data on a member’s shooting ability. Shooters not having their Average Cards up to date may be put in a higher class or otherwise penalized. Failure to accurately record scores,or the falsification of scores, can lead to disciplinary action including suspension from the ATA."

    To me that says the same thing you said. After all this time I would have thought you would have known that!!!!!

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there was ever a question about carrying and presenting a current card. My question was about carrying and presenting last season's card.
     
  11. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Shooters without a card should shoot penalty

    Robb, you wouldn't believe the numbers of shooters that show up to the handicapping station with absolutely nothing. Fortunately we run 3S software and update the score data base regularly and you can generally get all the info necessary with just a name. As a handicapper you want to give everybody a fair shake but odds are you will miss the mark one or two times out of a hundred and then all you hear for the rest of the day is how you screwed poor ol joe so and so out of his rightfully deserved place in C class. - Not a very rewarding job but you do it the best you can and as fast as you can.
     
  12. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    So what exactly is your point 9point3? What is it you are getting at?

    I carry my previous years card until I have roughly 500 in the new season. It's not a big deal and there really doesn't need to be a rule. It's common sense information the folks at Classification can use to properly do their job.
     
  13. 9manfan

    9manfan Well-Known Member

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    I have a question, I've been shooting for 2 years at a club that doesn't register birds, if I went to a ATA event to shoot, how would they classify me ???
     
  14. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts were that if a fella had a good run at the end of the season, because of a new gun or new glasses etc. but his average was still in the tank, he could hide the good scores by not being forced to show last season's card
     
  15. Robb

    Robb Member

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    Bob, You got me there. After all this time I should know. I'll read the book of suggestions again. Thanks.
     
  16. Robb

    Robb Member

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    wolfram, I bet if they had to shoot from the 25 they would have the card next time. But we sure don't want to scare off any shooters do we?
     
  17. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    9manfan, AAA based on known ability expressed by your competitors....
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Robb we don't have software to do our classifying. Any shooter comes through the line to be classified that doesn't have a card (filled out or not) automatically goes in the highest class. Whether he likes it or not there is no excuse for laziness an that is all it is. To damn lazy to fill out their own card, let the computer do it!!!!

    93 Anyone can do it right on their new card. Just shoot the meanest nastiest weather they can find all winter long. So what difference does it make?????

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. Robb

    Robb Member

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    As it should be Bob.
     
  20. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Your paper card has the last two year's averages on the face.