1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Imaginary Line in Handicaps

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by jdar46, Jul 22, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jdar46

    jdar46 Guest

    Page 32 Item 10 of ATA Rule book states:
    When firing, the contest's feet must be behind the firing mark at 16-yards, or behind the mark for the Handicap yardage assigned to him/her, depending upon the event being participated in. The contestant must stand with at least one foot on an imaginary line drawn through the center of the trap and continuing through the center of the post, or have one foot on each side of the line. Exceptions to the rule contained in the second sentence of this paragraph may be granted by the referee/ scorer due to inequalities in the shooting platform, and shall be granted for wheelchair contestants. Wheelchair contestants shall position their chair so that the center of mass of their body is over the place where they would stand as required by this rule if no chair were used. If a contestant fails to follow this rule in its entirety, the referee/scorer shallrule any target fired at and broken a "NO TARGET," but if fired at and missed, the referee/scorer shall rule the target "LOST." For example, targets shot at and broken from the wrong yardage marker must be shot over, targets shot at from the wrong yardage marker and missed will be scored "LOST."

    The reason I'm bringing up is:
    1) I have seen alot and I mean alot of shooters not standing in the center of the post in Handicaps.
    They stand in corners, off to the side, at the front. Not where they should and no one says a thing about it.
    2) At a recent "ZONE" shoot, I saw this happen, it was brought up in the middle of a shoot off.
    YOU KNOW WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS ONE.
    That was the wrong time to do this, especially after the shoot off has been going on for a while.
    The REFEREE/SCORER was , according to the above rule, was the one to make the call, not a busybody/friend of one of the others in the shoot off. This had an impact upon the rest of the shoot off. CHEAP SHOT, DIRTY, EVIL, and assorted other adjetives is what this was.

    Of course, proper training , along with reading the "RULE BOOK", needs to take place.

    Your thoughts and comments on this subject, and also, in the right spirit, let others know about positiong theirselves in the right spot so that this dosen't happen to them.
     
  2. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,707
    It's pretty hard not to have at least one foot touching the center line of most squares in that the largest are no more than 36 inches wide.
     
  3. TrapMan3

    TrapMan3 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    9
    I have to agree with JBrooks. Plus, I've stood at enough stations where the center of the concrete is busted up so bad that you have to stand to one side or the other.

    When shooting I really just try to keep to myself in terms of the rules. If I think about what others are doing around me, moving, talking, not standing in the right place, I miss targets.

    Carl<br>
    <a href="http://trapsites.com/trapman" target="_blank">Shooter Profile >></a>
     
  4. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,222
    Wear this really shows up is singles . I,V seen shooters on post 4 1/2 and post 1 1/2 when said shooter is really shooting post 5 and 1 . I don,t care as most of the people that do this know it,s not right and not many win anyway .

    ALF
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    When I am scoring or referring a shoot off, I do call foot faults. I recognize that a shooter may not intentionally be in violation so I give a little slack. After the squad has shot five on a post and they are moving, I announce that everyone should have their feet behind the line and on or across the center line. On the next post, if one shooter continues the violation I will announce the next time the squad moves that shooter 2 is in violation of the foot placement rules and I will begin calling either lost or no target if the situation is not corrected.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. jdar46

    jdar46 Guest

    Pat,
    That is good that you do this and it helps train folks, too.
     
  7. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,474
    Pat, how can you call it lost if the target is hit. Isn't no target the only proper call for improper foot positioning? JRM
     
  8. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,222
    Perga1 Pat never said that . He said If it,s lost it will stay lost but if it s hit it will be a no target .
     
  9. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Messages:
    930
    Pat, I fully agree that your method is fair and equitable. I think I watched the same shoot off that this thread was started over. I don't think anything was said till it was over. Shooter in question ran all 25, and then was told of infraction. Score report shows that the shooter won the shoot off, I must admit it confused a few of us in attendance. J.Woolsey
     
  10. Dednlost

    Dednlost Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    310
    What about a range that holds zone shoots and doesn't even bother to paint the boxes so you can't even tell which station your on?
     
  11. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,594
    I've refereed FAR more shootoffs than I've had the opportunity to participate in and looking for foot faults is right at the top of my check list with proper yardage. I've never had a warning cause ill feeling - but then I wouldn't know if I'm on someone's hit list, eh?......Bob Dodd
     
  12. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,542
    Location:
    HELL, MICHIGAN
    you know, you only need touch the line with part of a foot.....
    It's rather easy to set up that way, each time....
     
  13. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,734
    I have always wondered why this rule was ever written (one foot on either side or standing on an imaginary line and not the obvious behind the appropriate yardage)...
     
  14. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    I had a situation a few years back. I was shooting my assigned 'caps yardage and walked to post 4. When I arrived the concrete was so busted up it was impossible to stand and retain my balance. I asked if it would be permissible to stand to the right of the box on level ground. Permission was granted as I wasn't gaining anything by standing to the right of said box. I could see where an arguement could have arisen if I stood to the left side though.

    ec90t
     
  15. Harold

    Harold TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    247
    Pheasantmaster, I don't understand your question. You have to stand behind the yardage line AND over the center.
     
  16. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,734
    Harold, simple as stated above I understand the need and written rule to stand behind the appropriate yardage line. But why is there a need to stand with one foot on an imaginary line through the center of a post or with feet on each side?
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Martin- The current rule prevents a shooter on post five from placing his right foot at the left edge of the concrete pad and his left foot well out in the grass between post 4 and 5. If a shooter were allowed to do that, it would eliminate post 5 and replace it with post 4.7.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,538
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    prega1 the rule is worded.

    "the referee/scorer shall rule any target fired at and broken a “NO TARGET,” but if fired at and missed, the referee/scorer shall rule the target “LOST.”"

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. zinger

    zinger Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    582
    for some stupid reason, people think it cuts down on the angle of the target by cheating those few inches to the left on post 5...lol Can you imagine where people would stand if there weren't any rules?
     
  20. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,734
    Pat, so at position 4.7 what advantage would a shooter achieve? What would be the statistical increase in targets gained per 1000? Are there graphs in someones possesion to project/illustrate these figures?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.