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Illinois...WHAT HAPPENS NOW!!??

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by ronbo142, Feb 15, 2008.

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  1. ronbo142

    ronbo142 TS Member

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    Cowards use guns to kill inocent bystandards and then kill themself. If you banned guns they would find another way. Most people who do this are spineless worthless bottom feeders.

    Guns to not kill on thier own, it takes a human to pull the trigger.

    Ronbo
     
  2. bocephus

    bocephus Member

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    But SUVs have a mind of their own..........
     
  3. bobby ward

    bobby ward Member

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    Don,

    I hope you will join those of us here in Illinois in keeping the victims and their families in your thoughts and prayers.

    The initial press conference from Dekalb indicated that the guns were purchased legally and in accordance with all Federal and State laws. They also detailed that this kid had been on some kind of medication until recently when he stopped taking it and his behavior became erratic. There were no apparent indications, as is the case in most of these senseless rampages, that he was ready to blow a gasket like he did. So even when everything seems right, there is no stopping something like this.

    It is truly a sad day for everyone.
     
  4. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    When you combine mental illness with news saturation of previous shootings, you only can wonder when and where the next "copy cat" rampage is going to occur.
    That the guns were acquired legally doesn't help our case - in fact it hurts us because anti gun people will argue that current law doesn't go far enough.
     
  5. bobdog

    bobdog Active Member

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    Dick, the anti-gun people will argue that current laws don't go far enough no matter what happens. Reasoned argument has nothing to do with it. In their view, you should not be permitted to own guns under any circumstances. You don't need guns and you frighten them because you have them. Period.
     
  6. trapperwads

    trapperwads Well-Known Member

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    Ladies and Gentlemen...we have lemons so we make lemondade. This can be used to our advantage if we keep hammering home this message: At Virginia Tech more than thirty were murdered because there wasn't a good guy with a gun. But in the midwest and off duty volunteer security guard wounded the perpetrator before he killed many before killing himself. A good woman with a gun and guts may have saved countless lives. Do we want only the killers to have guns or are the mentally challenged liberals so naive as to beleive they will turn them in. Ed Nichols Binghamton NY
     
  7. EDGARMCM

    EDGARMCM TS Member

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    Remember how well prohibition worked? You know how well the control of street drugs works. That's how well the prohibition of guns will work too. Richard Daley, Chuckie Schumer and the rest don't seem to understand that. The gangbangers and the rest of the crooks will get their guns while the rest of us will be out of luck and defenseless.

    Once Obama is elected(if elected) his tune will change. With his ties to Chicago and Richard Daley it will be Katy bar the door.
     
  8. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    When this tragedy was first being reported, it was said, "he nonchalantly" reloaded the fire arms after the first barrage. Lack of medications or not, the "lunatic" knew he was safe from anyone else having a firearm to stop his madness!! We can surmise he knew it was a gun free zone and took advantage of it? Hap
     
  9. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    They keep saying he bought the guns legally... how's that possible?! Treated for mental illness, taking a medication(s), which now off of, allowed erratic behavior - that still seems like treatment to me.

    How did he qualify for a FOID and/or be able to pass a NICS check?! Seems like no improvement from VT.

    Jay
     
  10. tomk2

    tomk2 Member

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    I actually saw a so called "pundit" on CBS last night argue that since concealed weapons are hidden, a killer doesn't know he will be resisted with lethal force, so that he will not be deterred by concealed carry citizens.

    Jay -

    Privacy laws keep medical records out of the hands of law enforcement and the government. All of the depressed, schizophrenic, manic, and delusional patients in private treatment are invisible to those doing background checks. Mental health professionals want it this way, fearing that patients (especially the PARANOID ones) will avoid treatment out of fear of being reported.

    However, I might disagree with the fact that the guns were bought legally. On the federal form 4473, it specifically asks if you ever were adjudicated mentally defective or committed to a mental institution. This person could probably answer that as "NO".

    However, on the Illinois FOID application it asks:

    In the past 5 years, have you been a patient in any medical facility or part of any medical facility
    used primarily for the care or treatment of persons for mental illness?

    Doese going to a psychiatrists office require a "yes" answer to this question, or is it just for psychiatric in-patient facilities? If being treated by medication for mental illness requires answering this question as "yes", and the perpetrator instead answered "no", then those guns were not purchased legally.

    I believe the question once read something like "do you or have you ever suffered from mental illness.." and it was revised becuase people would be denied guns becuase once, a long time ago, they felt a little depressed and so they answered "yes" to this question.
     
  11. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    If he had not gotten the guns legally he would of gotten them someplace else, some other way, and those that are dead would be just as dead ... The fact that he could get them after being classified a 10/96, legally or not is the problem ... It proves that not matter how tight the State clamps down on those with criminal intent it will never be tight enough because the criminals or whacko's do not pay attention to the laws ... This enforces the need for citizens to be able to protect themself until the Police can get to the scene and take control of the situation ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  12. tomk2

    tomk2 Member

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    A former employee at a Chicago psychiatric treatment center said Kazmierczak had been placed there after high school by his parents. He used to cut himself and had resisted taking his medications, she said. Kazmierczak spent more than a year at the Thresholds-Mary Hill House in the late 1990s, former house manager Louise Gbadamashi told The Associated Press.

    It would appear that he lied on his federal form 4473 as well as his Illinois FOID card application. A truthful answer on either of those forms would have prevented the sale of firearms to him. Sweeping and dramatic changes to privacy laws in this country might also do the same, but at what cost and other unintended consequences?
     
  13. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Hold the drug company liable, their pills should automatically insert themselves with out patient having any involvement. If we are going to continue to relay on unstable people to medicate themselves, well we are Found. OK they Want ID implants right, Lets start with the fellons,mentally ill and all criminals. Quick scan, sorry denied. Then its off the the under world for them. I would guess half would not pursue the illegal obtainment of fire arms. It sucks no matter what.
     
  14. TRAPSHOOTING90T

    TRAPSHOOTING90T TS Member

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    First off please send my heart felt condolence to the victims of this tragedy.
    But please don't recognize these people as responsible gun owner or sportsmen these are only people with a weapon.There vehicle of choice should not detract from law abiding shooters.Please remember these people could kill people with other means but for some reason chosen our sportsmen choice of firearms.
    Sincerely.
    Roger L. Smith
     
  15. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    WPT you said "It proves that not matter how tight the State clamps down on those with criminal intent it will never be tight enough because the criminals or whacko's do not pay attention to the laws" all I can say to that is passing a law is not clamping down on criminals and whacko's. That is the biggest part of the problem. This guy lied and passed a background check why are the lawmakers not making provisions for another agency to enforce these law and make sure that everyone that fills out a form doesn't lie. Right you and I know the answer to that question.

    I would also like to offer my condolences to the families of the victims of this tragedy.

    Bob Lawless
     
  16. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    A comment was made that deranged whackos will simply turn to other instruments if guns are banned. I offer some examples which back that assertion up:<br>
    <br>
    The Bath School massacre happened in Bath Township, Michigan on May 18, 1927. 45 people were killed, most of them second to sixth grade children, and 58 were injured. Andrew Kehoe was the mass murderer. He was upset about a property tax levy for the school that he claimed caused foreclosure on his farm. He murdered his wife, then set fire to all the buildings on his farm. While firefighters were occupied there, he detonated hundreds of pounds of dynamite and pyrotol he had hidden under the north wing of the school over many months. He then detonated a bomb inside his car, filled with shrapnel, killing himself and the school superintendent. This may one of the first car bombings, if not the first. Later, 500 lbs of unexploded dynamite and pyrotol were found under the west wing. Fortunately, it did not explode, or the death toll would ahve been higher.<br>
    <br>
    Hector Escudero killed 96 people in an arson fire in a Puerto Rican casino in December 1987 as part of labor union activism.<br>
    <br>
    Julion Gonzalez killed 87 people in an illegal night club in New York City in April 19990, using a $1 worth of gasoline. He was trying to get revenge on his girlfriend.<br>
    <br>
    The above were acts by single individuals. Here are some acts by multiple persons. Firearms were not used in the first two acts:<br>
    <br>
    Sept 19, 2001 terrorist attacks on the WTC Building in NYC and the Pentagon, plus a hijacked plane crash, resulted in 2,998 deaths, not counting the 19 suicide hijackers. The aircraft themselves were used as weapons, and were taken over by force using boxknives.<br>
    <br>
    168 kills and over 800 injured in the Murrah Building bombing of April 19, 1995, in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. A large quantity of a homemade explosive was used.<br>
    <br>
    Firearms, along with other weapons, were used in these massacres:<br>
    <br>
    The Chinese massacre of Oct 24, 1871 saw 19 Chinese men and boys killed by whites seeking revenge for the death of a white caught by a stray bullet fired between two rival Chinese gangs.
    <br>
    The East St. Louis Massacre that started on July 1, 1917 resulted in a week of rioting, burning of black homes and businesses, and the deaths of at least 150 blacks. The National Guard was called out, but eyewitness accounts on both sides indicate that the NG joined in the rioting instead of stopping it.<br>
    <br>
    The 1857 Mountain Meadows Massacre saw a wagon train being offered "protection" by the Mormons, who staged an indian raid. Once under Mormon "protection", the Mormons massacred 130 adults and teens. The only ones spared were children under 8 years old.<br>
    <br>
    Chief Openchancanough of the Powhatan Confederacy killed 400 colonists (a third of the white population then) in a surprise attack on March 22, 1622. That's pre-USA history, though, and he probably was not deranged.<br>
    <br>
    There are probably other examples. But that's all I could think of off the top of my head.<br>
    <br>
    And that doesn't even touch on the subject of government led massacres, presumably by non-deranged individuals. For example, we could include the US Government led massacres of the Indians at Wounded Knee and Fort Robinson. And don't forget the Boston Massacre by the British. Further, there are examples of massacres of rioters and picketing union members by the US Gov't at the behest of large corporates, like Standard Oil. And while the death toll was relatively low, don't forget the Bonus March attack led by Uncle Sam as well.
     
  17. tomk2

    tomk2 Member

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    A few years ago, as many elementary school kids were killed in California by a deranged man as were killed at NIU. You never heard about it, because the man's weapon of choice was his high powered automatic Cadillac. It would seem that as he drove by the school, he saw some children that "needed killing" so he just jumped the curb, chased them around the playground, and ran them down. Attack was ended when the car got hung up on some playground equipment. Story got two paragraphs on page 19.
     
  18. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Bob,

    I also said "This enforces the need for people to be able to protect themself until the Police can get to the scene and take control of the situation" ...
    I read in our local paper the other day about some "Gang Bangers" who tried to car jack a guy sitting at a light ... I figure the fact that he had a gun and shot two of the car jackers on the spot was deterant enough because the other two took off like they had a scud missle shoved up their ass ... This made a little paragraph in the middle of the paper mixed in with local news so everyone could go and read it without having to search it out (yeah right) ... No arrests were made or anticipated ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  19. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    WPT I understand what you said I was being satirical(as best I can Be) Funny you should mention a car jacking. I once worked with a guy that had spent the day shooting his handguns at a local club with a friend. On the way home they stopped at the friends house for a reloading session. He then left to go home he lives in the City. He stopped at a red light and a car load of punks pulled up along side of him and started to harass him. The light changed so he flipped them the bird and drove off. At another light guess who pulled up they got out of the car and tried to get in his car. He raised his 44 mag (pointed at the roof of his own car straight up) and they took off. To make the story short after he got home the LEOS show up and arrested him. He was the one that got in trouble. They claimed he threatened them. Lost all his gun rights for a year. Sometimes you have to make a decision. Not that I would have done it any other way with one exception. I would have gone to the PD immediately after the incident.

    Bob Lawless
     
  20. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    5 people were killed at NIU by a person with mental problems. Once again a case of the "doctors" decide that as long as this mentally distrubed person self medicated he would be fine as a member of society. Once again proving the doctors don't have a clue. It is a horrible tragedy and this disturbed person had the mental capacity to plan ion great detail what he planned to do and did. Had there been one person in the crowd that was armed live might have been saved. My heart goes out to the familes of the people that were hurt and killed. Withinb 24 hrs of the shooting and killing of 5 people, 8 were killed in an auto drag racing accident my heart goes out to hose 8 people and thier familes as well. I've not heard any anti car people yet?? But the anti gunners are all over this.
     
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