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Illinois politics cause problem at the Grand

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by Crunch, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. Crunch

    Crunch Member

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    I was at the Grand in Sparta this past weekend and wanted to buy a trap gun at one of the vendors. I was told that because I'm from ND I wasn't allowed to buy in Illinois. The seller will ship the gun to me when he returns to his home state. He said it had to do with ATF and relationship ND has with Illinois. ND is a gun friendly state that respects gun owners.......I'm not too sure about Illinois. I'll go to other trapshooting events in states that respect my rights.

    Bottom line......I paid an extra $70 for shipping and I have to wait about 10 days to get a single shot trap gun.
     
  2. niagara

    niagara TS Member

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    I find it hard to believe the politicians in IL have a grievance with ND shooters.

    I was told any gun I bought in IL had to be shipped to NY.
     
  3. Desert Hiker

    Desert Hiker Member

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    I'm from Il. but now live in Az...Il. gun laws are nuts...They believe that NO guns in the hands of honest people reduced crime...You can tell how effective their regulations work by the out of control murder rate in Chicago...With ATF agents undercover the vendors at the Grand need to walk a fine line. Ron
     
  4. jeffprigge

    jeffprigge Active Member

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    Bought $ 8200 gun at grand couple years ago , if I took it with me from there had to pay ill tax ,shipped from dealers biz , no tax
     
  5. straightshooter1

    straightshooter1 Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    niagara, why would a gun you bought have to be shipped to NY? You are in Ohio and said so, in your posts selling your KS-5.

    Is niagara the name you chose (since it brings to mind Niagara Falls) to keep people from thinking maybe you were nameisjoe?

    I was not the first to suspect that you might be someone from our past, and I could be mistaken....

    Bob
     
  6. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    It has always been that way.

    You can take the wood, you can take the barrel, but the part that goes bang has to be sold to you by an FFL licensee in your state.

    What goes on between private sellers and buyers is another matter, but dealers have to follow the law.

    It has nothing to do with Illinois or ND, It's the ATF.

    HM
     
  7. Chadshot

    Chadshot Member

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    Did laws change last I knew you could buy long guns across state lines but not handguns? Or is this just Il law?
     
  8. Crunch

    Crunch Member

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    The vendor I purchased from had a list of 5 or 6 states that couldn't buy a gun in Illinois. North Dakota was on that list. I assume that ND (and the other states) won't agree to some of the ridiculous demands made in the Illinois legislature regarding firearms. Why would certain states be excluded and not others?

    I live in a border city on the ND and MN line. We are allowed to buy long guns in MN without a home state FFL needed. We do it all the time. Handguns are a different thing, we need an FFL for that.

    I won't be supporting a state that won't respect my 2nd Amendment rights. Arizona and Florida respect gun owners......I'll go to the Grand trapshooting events held in those states.
     
  9. bossbasl

    bossbasl Active Member

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    Crunch: I wholeheartedly agree with you. To hell with the IL fascist's who will gladly steal your money and use it to prop up their leftist agenda. Makes you wonder why the ATA would move the Grand location to such a locale??
     
  10. zinger

    zinger Member

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    Halfmile is correct.
     
  11. Crunch

    Crunch Member

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    I don't deny that halfmile is correct and it is ATF. Why, are those 5-6 states excluded from purchasing at the Grand. My brother from Wyoming was with me. He could have bought the gun and taken it home that day. Why couldn't I buy it?
     
  12. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how it's ATF. At the federal level it is legal to purchase from the premises of an ffl, regardless of whether he is in your state of residence, IF it is legal in both the state of the transaction and the state of residence. Seems to me state law is coming into play.

    It isn't illinois either, they allow nonresidents to purchase at the grand. So, seems legal at federal and Illinois levels, maybe it is your home state that has the problem or the ffl is wrong or maybe the ffl isnt technically licensed at that location.
     
  13. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but it's just so much easier to bash and blame the Grand and Illinois than to find out the truth first.

    My buddy bought an XT Combo from Guns Unlimited on Monday of the AIM Grand. Took it with him the same day. They sell alot of guns during the Grand. You honestly think they ship them all?
     
  14. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    If a dealer has a FFL address in IL, he can sell you the gun and you may take it with you. It is an ATF deal. A dealer will need an FFL in each state if he wants to give the firearm.

    Several years ago I was asked by Paxton Arms to work the World Shoot and the NSCA National shoot for him. Because I was not directly working for him, I would have needed to apply for ANOTHER license to work in TX if I had any plans to keep guns over night.
     
  15. tanda1

    tanda1 Active Member

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    Wow, some of you guys really need to read these:

    www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

    www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/state-laws/31st-edition/index.html
     
  16. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    So, the story told to the op makes no sense at all. Best guess is the dealer was not licensed in IL, and is therefore required to ship only from his home premises. Neither of the states prohibited the sale. Of course he could not sell to anyone locally either in that case, don't know what the deal is with the magic 5 or 6 states.
     
  17. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

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    What may a licensed dealer do at an out-of-State gun show?

    A licensed dealer may sell and deliver curio or relic firearms to another licensee at an out-of-State gun show. With respect to other firearms transactions, a licensed dealer may only display and take orders for firearms at an out-of-State gun show. In filling any orders for firearms, the dealer must return the firearms to his or her licensed premises and deliver them from that location. Any firearm ordered by a non-licensee must be delivered or shipped from the licensee’s premises to a licensee in the purchaser’s State of residence, and the purchaser must obtain the firearm from the licensee located in the purchaser’s State. Except for sales of curio or relic firearms to other licensees, sales of firearms and simultaneous deliveries at the gun show, whether to other licensees or to non-licensees, violate the law because the dealer would be unlawfully engaging in business at an unlicensed location.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(1), (b)(3), 923(a) and (j)]
     
  18. wackdux

    wackdux TS Member

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    It's not the ATF i'ts the state of Illinois, the dealer at the Grand explained it to me.
     
  19. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    wackdux:

    I'd like to hear the explanation. We've gone over why federal law poses a problem, but the IL issues posted seem incorrect to me, at least for most ATA members there.

    Now, yes, IL could cause a problem if you weren't at the Grand to shoot, it seems, but anyone that can argue they are participating in a shoot is exempt from the IL restriction (which is to allow sales only to Nonresidents from MI, IN, WI, or KY). The main provision that applies to most at the grand (admittedly not everyone): "Any non-resident who is participating in a sanctioned competitive shooting event... may purchase a shotgun or shotgun ammunition in Illinois for the purpose of participating in that event."
     
  20. elinvar

    elinvar Member

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    being a dealer from Illinois I am at a disadavntage at the Grand- By Illinois Law I can only sell a long gun to Ill residents or people from states that border Ill.
    So I can sell to a guy from missouri but not from ohio- Any state that does not border Ill, I have to ship to FFL in that state-
    Also the 24 hour wait also applies for a long gun purchase.

    Terry Jones