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Illegal vs US Citizen... guess who wins?

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by Brian in Oregon, Sep 3, 2010.

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  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    This is the Obama Administrations' answer to guns going into Mexico... Convict US Citizens and let illegal aliens who try to buy guns go free (and remain living here). REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER!!!!

    Also, some dealers at another gun site are printing this out and will no longer sell to anyone who looks hispanic. Hispanics can thank BATF for that.

    -----------

    ATF it was a trick question...

    http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=38088

    In Federal District Court on July 20, 2010, the ATF won a conviction from an Austin jury that defies logic and reason. In a trial before Federal Judge Sam Sparks, government lawyers conceded Texas resident Paul Copeland did not know his buyer was an illegal alien, but the jury they should convict him anyway because he "had reasonable cause to believe" he was selling to an illegal alien because the two men and a boy who were present at his table at the time of the sale: 1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing. And the jury did as asked. Assistant U.S. Attorney Jennifer Freel acted as lead prosecutor in the case.

    The firearm transaction at issue occurred on January 16, 2010, at a gunshow at the North Austin Events Center, at 10601 N. Lamar Blvd., in Austin, Texas. Undercover ATF agents followed Mr. Huerta, his son, and another Hispanic male, Hipolito Aviles, around the "Texas Gunshow" that day, and claimed to observe Huerta’s transaction. Austin P.D. used Copeland’s case as the reason to close down the gunshow, leading to a protest by Austin residents in front of APD headquarters on January 25.

    Mr. Copeland is a 56 year old Cedar Creek resident and Vietnam veteran who liked to buy, sell, and trade firearms as a hobby. On January 16, however, he had the misfortune to sell a handgun to Leonel Huerta Sr., who spoke both English and Spanish. Huerta Sr. negotiated his purchase from Copeland in English, showing Copeland his Texas Driver’s License. At Copeland’s trial Huerta admitted on the witness stand, that he is in the country illegally, (Huerta Sr. had previously admitted this fact to Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) Special Agent Leo Buentello). ATF Agent Shawn Kang claimed he saw Huerta later hand off the gun to Aviles. Despite these admissions, Huerta Sr. was never arrested, charged, or deported. Instead, his presence at the gunshow was used to entrap an American citizen into an unwitting violation of a federal gun control law. Huerta Sr., who is a resident of the City of Austin, appeared as a witness at the trial, admitted he was in the country illegally before federal prosecutors and a federal judge, yet he was allowed to leave the courtroom under his own power. To date Huerta Sr. has not been prosecuted for his purchase, possession, or disposition of the handgun he bought from Copeland, while Copeland is now a convicted felon.

    "Instead of busting the illegal alien for buying, they bust the citizen for selling," commented Paul Velte, attorney and founder of Peaceable Texans for Firearms Rights, a gun-owners rights advocacy group from Austin. Velte asked, "who was in a better position to know the buyer’s immigration status, the buyer or the seller?" He also said, "What happened to Paul Copeland should enrage all Americans. The Federal Government is using illegal aliens to entrap citizens lawfully exercising their right to sell firearms. The illegal alien walks free, but the citizen gets convicted. The same government charged with controlling immigration is the one using illegal immigrants to attack its own citizens. Does this make any sense? It makes no sense unless the purpose is to discourage attendance at gunshows and frighten citizens from selling their firearms to other citizens."

    Velte pointed out that "There is no way for a citizen to know who is here legally or not. In fact, under Austin’s ‘sanctuary city’ policy, not even the police officer at the door of the gunshow was allowed to ask a person’s immigration status, yet the average Texan inside the show is expected to assume that a person standing before them with a Texas driver’s license is in the country illegally just because they look Mexican and speak Spanish." Velte noted that the federal government’s lawsuit against Arizona was based on that very type of conduct: Concluding someone could be here illegally based on their looks or their language. Velte said gun owners in his group are outraged, and they want to know:

    Why is the illegal alien who purchased the gun, Leonel Huerta Sr., still living in Austin?

    Why does he still have a Texas Driver’s license?

    Why is ATF using illegal aliens to set up and convict American citizens?

    What has he been promised for his cooperation?

    Why has he not been prosecuted? He committed three distinct crimes: he purchased a firearm knowing he was an illegal alien, he possessed the firearm, and he transferred the handgun to another illegal alien (Hippolito Aviles, who was convicted and given time served on June 30, 2010).

    Why has Huerta Sr. not been deported?

    Judge Sparks sentenced Copeland on August 27 to six months confinement and 24 months of probation, and called Copeland "a liar" for not admitting guilt. ATF confiscated Copeland’s entire gun collection and initiated forfeiture proceedings. Copeland was also fired from his job due to the indictment, and he would have lost his home to foreclosure, if not for his family stepping in to pay his mortgage while he serves his sentence.
     
  2. ysr_racer

    ysr_racer Active Member

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  3. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Soon there will be violence of a high order if the stupidity continues.

    Secondary question:

    As Many states enact laws Mirroring the AZ law, Is the Federal Government going to take each and every one to court?

    I see another huge waste of taxpayer funds about to go on.

    Some states already have laws more stringent than the AZ law.

    We need Eisenhower to return (Operation Wetback)

    HM
     
  4. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    So is the ATF's answer NOT TO SELL to ANYONE that speaks Spanish and wears "cowboy" clothing....Guess no more guns for me....
     
  5. HC_John

    HC_John TS Member

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    Now you know if he would have refused to sell the gun, then he would have been hit for racial discrimination. Guess if your going to go to jail, make it worth while and just start shooting them.

    John MI
     
  6. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

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    Couldn't the reasons given that the seller should have suspected that the buyer was an illegal be construed as "racial profiling"? In other words, a citizen is required to profile while a law enforcement officer is prohibited from doing so.
     
  7. Clayshooter08

    Clayshooter08 Member

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    This is a slap in every AMERICANS face and we should fix it NOV 2nd....
     
  8. Borderland

    Borderland Member

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    Judge Sparks is a well known liberal activist judge who has made many unpopular decisions in Texas. He is a poster boy for the argument against appointing federal judges for life. Please dont judge the rest of Texas by what happens in Austin. That city is not representative of the rest of Texas.

    Ken
     
  9. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    AMERICANS HAVE HAD IT! Enough of this horse sh$t. It's time to flush the political turd bowl and get rid of the people who continue to abuse the
    naturalized and legal citizens rights. How in the name of common sense can this man be expected to know if these people were LEGAL citizens???? Hell the police in Arizona can't even ask that question!!!!

    NO LIFETIME APPOINTMENTS OF ANY KIND FOR ANYONE!

    Need a law that makes it mandatory for ALL US citizens to vote and if you don't you can spend 40 hours picking up trash along the border.

    Sign me very disgusted.
     
  10. Model Number 12

    Model Number 12 TS Member

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    There is another post here asking how to get out of jury duty. This case and decision are exactly why you should serve when called to jury duty. Our nation of laws requires a unanimous decision from the jury. How would you have voted were you on this jury?

    I do not remember who to credit with this quote or even if it is accurate, but it is fitting:
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".
     
  11. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Edmund Burke said that. I believe he was Irish.
     
  12. Borderland

    Borderland Member

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    You and I are not likely to serve on a Federal jury. The Feds are very adept at manipulating the jury pool they call. It is very different from the jury pool for the state and local courts. The success rate in federal prosecutions is higher than state courts because of this massaging of the available jurors. How many times have you had the opportunity to serve on a federal court jury as opposed to a state court jury. Ken
     
  13. BFJ201

    BFJ201 TS Member

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    Unfortunately the problem with the jury system is that jurors are instructed to not use their own judgment as to whether a law is just or constitutional. They are instructed to determine only if the defendant violated the law as its on the books. Also cost of compliance is too high for the productive members of society as Senior Smoke said in the other thread it cost him money out of pocket (parking cost him more than he received for jury duty) on top of causing him friction at work. This cost creates a jury composed of members that are less than optimum for a proper trial.

    James
     
  14. ou.3200

    ou.3200 Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone verified this story? It appears to be making the rounds on the blogs but I don't see any authoritative verification nor news stories regarding any such conviction. There is no reference to it on the BATF site that I can find and the press releases listed by the U. S. Attorney's Office, Western District of Texas for 2010 includes no release reporting this. BATF and the U. S. Attorney's Office routinely report conviction and sentencing of defendants.
     
  15. ou.3200

    ou.3200 Well-Known Member

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    This appears to be a hoax.
     
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