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If you are unhappy with the category rules....

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by recurvyarcher, Dec 10, 2010.

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  1. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Send me a private message and tell me why. I will not disclose your name to anyone, so you don't have to fear reprisal.

    If you are happy with the category rules, state it here on this thread and tell us why.

    I would appreciate hearing from the delegates and people on the B.O.D. that post on ts.com. Everyone knows which delegates read and post, so if you pass on the opportunity to respond, we will have to assume that you don't want your position knowns so that you can work both sides like a politician.

    Let's hear where everyone stands.
     
  2. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Before commenting would someone let me know it this example is correct:

    A sub-junior lady declares in category

    She ties with 25 others for the Clay Target Championship.

    She is tied for first in Ladies with 3 others

    She is the only sub-junior with 200x200

    Because she declared "in category", she cannot shoot in the shoot-off and must take sub-junior.

    Thank you,

    Don Verna
     
  3. The Stive

    The Stive Member

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    No I am a Vet. I declare as a Vet. If I tie for class or class runner-up
    and have been beaten out for Vet, I can shoot off for my class. I know that
    if I tie for Vet, I cannot shoot off for my class. It is all good as far as I am concerned. John
     
  4. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    Gary puts a good spin on it....Alaska has many of the same problems. We want our shooters to be happy. At a small shoot, its not a big deal to have a lady shooter, for example, spend 15-20 minutes deciding. Big deal...we MIGHT have lady shooters.

    And we give trophies out daily, no carryovers, no its a big deal to have your name called and have everyone clap and cheer for YOU.

    I can surely see the problems that kind of decision might cause at a big shoot, though...
     
  5. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    I am a couple of years off from a catagory (AH If only that were Junior but alas no)When I reach that magic number that is the catagory I will declare. Pretty simple.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  6. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Jim thanks for trying to help but I am thicker than a railroad tie.

    In my example, are you saying the sub junior wins her category AND gets to shoot for Champion because she tied?

    If she wins the Champion award, does she win both sub-Junior and Champion? That seems unfair to the other Sub-Juniors. So I assume she gets the better award and the next placed Sub-Junior(s) get to win Category. If there are 3 sub-juniors at 198, do they shoot off for Category? Do the three sub-juniors shoot off after the lady with the 200x200 wins the Championship?

    Many thanks,

    Don Verna (who is so happy not to have to deal with this as my head already hurts)
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    The Stive (John) Come on down to the Dixie Grand and declare as a Vet and have a great day. Shoot high in your class but tie for Vet. You must shoot off for Vet against several AAA All American shooters and you can't fall back to class. There will be several All American Vets at the Dixie. You might beat Kay O. in a shoot off for Vet and you might not. Your Class will be won by another shooter who did not shoot as well as you did.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. missed some

    missed some TS Member

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    I like it the way it is mark crist not yet a cat. shooter
     
  9. grandpa3

    grandpa3 Member

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    missed some

    If I wasn't a category shooter I'd like it
    the way it is now too. ??????????

    J.J. Grunewald
     
  10. AAtrap

    AAtrap Well-Known Member

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    Mark,(missedsome), you're in a category all your own. It's just that no one has been able to figure out what it is yet.

    I'm satisfied with the categories as they are (vet.), Devi

    Steve Elliott
     
  11. JJM

    JJM Member

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    The category rule should be changes as to the proposed rule in the current
    BOD minutes. This would be fair for all. Only one cat and it must be declared when one signs up. A cat shooter should have a chance to make a choice Cat of class, place or yardage.
    Joe Miller
     
  12. grandpa3

    grandpa3 Member

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    JJM-- What did you say ????????????????????
     
  13. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Gary Waalkes, if the guys shoot off, they still get to fall back on a trophy. If a category shooter shoots off for category and loses, they lose out on those "extra bites at the apple" that you guys get to take. You all get to fall back all the way down the line, i.e. 2nd place, 3rd place, yardage, class...do you not?

    The explanation that you gave for not wanting to upset the shooters is understandable, except that you are already alienating many category shooters with the current rules. Just wait 'til that category shooter walks away without the trophy that somebody with a lower score got. See how THAT retains your shooters...
     
  14. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Jim

    Thanks for your patience. It is what I assumed would happen but wanted to be sure.

    Devi,
    If the Cat shooter falls back to win their Cat how is this unfair? If they win Champ they lose Cat.

    Pat,
    In your example you state you must shoot off if tied in Cat. Can you decline and win class?

    Again, thanks to all for your patience. Being male and sixty I have no options anyway. I suppose I should be most thankful I am spared these gyrations.

    Don Verna
     
  15. Quick 1

    Quick 1 Active Member

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    What would of happened if Devon Harris had declared himself a veteran at the Grand this year? The champion on Grand day had a lone 100, but was ineligible for the challenge because he hadn't shot four handicap events. Would he have been allowed to shoot off for place to make himself eligible for the challenge, or would he have had to take vet trophy?
     
  16. JJM

    JJM Member

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    To: Gary Waalkes

    You stated ----
    And don't forget that if a category shooter is not tied for champ and is not high in category, that shooter can still win class or yardage.

    That is not true, if you are a category shooter and and lose the category you are done there is no fall back to class or yardage.
    Joe Miller
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I ask several ATA officials the morning of the first day of the Grand the same question that Quick 1 just asked above. I was told for this shoot, the vet etc. cat shooter would shoot for a place in the hundred grand shoot out under that scenario!

    "In a word, No! Couldn't shoot for place would have to take vet. In addition to the lone 100 there were 3 99's, vet was won with 98."

    If one of those 99s had been a cat shooter? I specifically asked because of the possibility of Leo winning two handicap events creating such circumstances. I hadn't thought of anyone not being eligible to enter and winning the Grand American Handicap.

    Hap
     
  18. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    I knew I should have lied about my age and got a dress when I signed up with the ATA. AJ
     
  19. Smiley

    Smiley Member

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    It seems to me as a category shooter you have a choice and once you make it you run with it win or loose and if you loose you should not have the right to fall back on the other option .It may seem harsh but you have all the scores and competitors names in view when the choice is made,as all the other competitors who are not eligible have to compete in their grade/yardage no choice at all.
    Paul
     
  20. shotgunpeople

    shotgunpeople Active Member

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    I'm a few years away from catagory yet, but I have been told if I declare VET, and yet let's say I would have won an event if I had not declared, do I understand I would not be in line for any ADDED MONEY ???

    Not sure I put it correctly but I have heard that a catagory shooter will not share Added money.

    Does anyone know for sure ?

    Dave
     
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