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If the ATA and EC & Delegates read this site

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dr.Longshot, Mar 9, 2010.

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  1. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Go back in time and reset the lewis class payout the way it used to be.

    4 classes 50-30-20 more average shooters got some payouts


    The present lewis class system favors the top dogs

    Lewis class at present is 60/40 classes are 3 mor 4 thats 6 or 8 places vs 12

    Some are even 4 classes one money pays 4 places.

    When you spread around the wealth the average shooter is happy to hit the lewis class most of the time it will pay his entry.

    This applies to all State Shoots, Sattelite Grands, Zone Shoots.


    Seriously consider this.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
    Life Member 40-10126 since 1969
     
  2. FlaLagarto

    FlaLagarto Well-Known Member

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    Rolling laughing..

    I just happen to have a payout sheet from a recent local shoot.. Using Dr Longwinds suggestion above.. if I won last place of the 4th class.. my check would have been for 27 cents !! Not sure where he shoots, but that won't cover my entry money here in Florida..
     
  3. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    So, don't use a Modified Lewis as it only caters to the shooters that actually shoot and win?

    Curt
     
  4. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Why not just have a drawing? That way we don't have to "actually shoot and win". And everyone has an equal chance!!!

    Doesn't it piss you off when you lose with a 98, and a bunch of shooters with 97's split the "big money".

    Don Verna
     
  5. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    If it is set up for the big guns to win, then the big guns will win. There has to be a way to set it up so the D,C,& B classes get to win a little, otherwise there is no incentive for the small guy to go to the "Grand" and shoot. If it is set up for the Big Dogs eventually you will have just big dogs, and pardon me for saying it but, the big dogs don't pay the bills it's the average Joe. Just like income taxes. It's the average Joe (middle class) that pay the bills in this country. Come guys change the rules so everyone has a shot to win a little then sit back and watch attendance go up. Bulge.
     
  6. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Why not skip the Lewis and just elect for the class purse option? That way, you get what you earn and there's no gambling or "big dogs" to worry about. Or you could forget about the options entirely and just shoot for fun...

    Ed
     
  7. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    With so few players anymore adding classes will result in almost a negative payoff. ATA Trapshooting has evolved into two classes-trinket shooters and others who don't need a payoff to continue shooting another week.

    As the middle group disappears-those that liked to play the money but too smart to donate their weekly grocery money to an outdated handicap system-so goeth our once fine sport!!
     
  8. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Sounds like our country, turning into a two class society. Bulge.
     
  9. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    bulge:

    You stated the following in support of your point, "Just like income taxes. It's the average Joe (middle class) that pay the bills in this country".

    Your thesis about who pays the ATA bills may be valid but your supporting evidence isn't. Google 'who pays income tax' and you'll find out who does. Following are the numbers for 2007 as reported by the IRS:

    The top 1% (see note below) paid 40.42% of all income tax collected.

    The top 5% paid 60.63%.

    The top 10% paid 71.22%

    The top 25% paid 86.59%

    The remaining 75% paid a piddling 13.41%

    Approximately 43% of all 'tax units' (mostly low income households) have either ZERO or NEGATIVE income taxes. In the case of the negatives, the feds actually sends THEM money.

    Unless we can somehow define us average joes as being in the top 10% of income earners, average joe's income tax contribution isn't much. Contrary to popular (and in this case populist) opinion, it is clearly the Big Dogs that pick up the income tax tab.

    sissy

    Note: Income percentages listed above are for adjusted gross income as defined and reported by the IRS.
     
  10. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    I stand corrected. Not to get off the subject I would like to see a flat tax no exemptions of about 12%.
     
  11. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I asked for the ATA & EC to read this post and I get Flagrato Rolling and Laughing, he is a retired minister that does not evidently support his flock anymore now that he has a high retirement income and living Florida on Retirement. Flagrato I don't care about your payout.

    I asked for EC and Delegates to read this post.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
    Life member 40-10126
     
  12. RLC323

    RLC323 Member

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    Average Ed makes a good point. The class B-D shooters would be better off playing the class purse instead of the lewis. At many state shoots the B-D group has so few class purse entries the money gets returned to the two guys that played it.

    I usually try to play the yardage purse, if I lose money there it is hard to feel bad since I competed solely against my "peers."
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    sissy- I have great confusion about your numbers. They indicate that 106% of the population paid 272% of the income taxes and the remaining 43% of the population paid nothing. Is that really possible or do we have a serious inflation problem?

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Pat, I think Sissy was running cumulative total adding each of the previous groups. Bulge.
     
  15. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    RickN I was not talking about the cubs only the Grand, Sattelite Grands, and ATA Zone Shoots, they are in control here.

    RickN When was your first year of shooting registered?

    The State Shoots should adjust their Lewis Classes also for more shooters to shoot and raise attendance.

    Have you not noticed since the 70s the change in Lweis Class payouts?

    They were changed so the big dogs got 10% more of the money for 1st and 2nd place in 1 st Lewis class.

    Then some changed it to $ classes one money and the top dog got 25% AND FEW Splits, usually on Hdcp only one shooter w/100 straight.

    When I was shooting in the 70s and 80s I got most of my target Entry Money Back

    Spread the payouts around like it used to be. The average shooter did not request the Lewis Class change, I used to hear HEY I HIT THE LEWIS not anymore.

    The shooters that started shooting in the 90s don't know the way it used to be
    and that includes FLAGRATO. I have to see the .38 cents he's talking about.



    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
    Life Member 40-10126
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The ATA is not in control of the zone shoots; each zone is responsible to itself.

    The ATA is not responsible for Satellite Grand option-choices either, correctly assuming that each site has a better idea what the attending shooters will want than can be guessed at from afar.

    The Grand payouts are re-evaluated every year with a lot of advice from Bob Stuart who knows more about what people like, what people play, and what they avoid than anyone else. When I had some say in all this, I generally thought we should take his advice and I think we did, for the most part.

    Maybe people (if they are moved to play options at all) will take the good advice above about playing the class purses if they aren't AAA or AA; for the rest the Lewis is a sucker bet.

    Neil
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Gary- Thirty years ago more people played the options so the winners got more money. Now, I believe the majority of shooters shoot for targets only and this results in low pay outs for the winners. It is not so much how the Lewis is split, rather it is what there is to split.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    I'm a legitmate AA, 26- 27, A shooter at the moment. I used to be better but lots of health problem have trimmed me down some. I occasionally break a 100 in singles. I shoot in the low 90's in the caps, with an occasional 95-6-7. Doubles have gone to heck and I am about 3.5 targets off my best past shooting.

    If I were going to play the money, and I'd like to, what should I play?
     
  19. Jack Frost

    Jack Frost TS Member

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    take a yardage reduction and buy yourself in a calcutta for $50! This was just for humor, not really sound advice.

    J.F.
     
  20. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Barry sure looks like plenty of other shooters who are past their prime. In order to be competetive with Kay and the others, either he should be standing on the 21 or Kay at 30 yds. and beyond. Since the system allows neither, Barry should stay home or shoot and hope to collect another belt buckle on a very lucky day!!
     
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