1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

If Aliant e3 was so great, why claydot?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by zzt, Jul 6, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,457
    Location:
    SE PA
    No, they do not unless you lump everything into fast or slow categories. They are all fast powders, but there are distinct differences between them.

    e3 is the cleanest of the bunch and offers the most consistent performance year round. I think it is the best 1oz load powder I've tried.

    Clay Dot was designed to match the performance and burning characteristics of Hodgdon Clays. It does. I personally like it better than Clays, and it gives me SDs below 6.0 when I shoot it in 1oz loads over a chrono.

    Red Dot is one of the most versatile powders on the planet. I don't think it is the best in any single category, but if you limited me to only one powder for all the loads I shoot, Red Dot would be it. Think of it as jack of all trades- master of none.

    Promo is a promotional powder composed of a mix of OEM powders Alliant would like to get rid of. It is variable in composition, density and performance. If you are willing to accommodate its foibles, you can't buy anything cheaper that is worth using.
     
  2. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,457
    Location:
    SE PA
    I see that while I was typing my post with two fingers, the quick fingered PBB beat me to the punch. Way to go Mike.
     
  3. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    15,639
    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    Clays was the first of the new clean burning powders. At the time it was introduced the only powder that really burned cleanly was PB, which cost an arm and a leg.

    I knew one fellow who went back to PB, because he didn't care for the faster burn rate of Clays. But a lot of people got into it, and to this day it is one of the very popular powders.

    HM
     
  4. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    524
    I'm still using Red Dot. Consistent enough for me
     
  5. Harold

    Harold TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    247
    The four powders serve the same basic purpose, 12 gauge target loads, but are for slightly different segments of the market. Red Dot is for shooters who have been using Red Dot since dirt and see no reason to change. Promo is for those who want to save a little more money. E3 was to take the title of cleanest burning powder away from Clays. Claydot was to make it easy for Clays shooters to switch, without having to change their recipes. It shouldn't be too surprising if they aim their marketing at their main competitor which is Hodgdon Clays.
     
  6. FarmerD

    FarmerD TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    781
    zzt, as far a Promo being one of the best inexpensive powders, I disagree. One it meters very poorly, and two the performance across a chronograph is very erratic. This goes for weighed loads as well as metered loads.

    A much better metering, consistent, and inexpensive powder is REX I. Costs about $8.75 lb and burns as clean as Promo or Red Dot. IMHO Richard
     
  7. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,457
    Location:
    SE PA
    BLKLAB, you mistook my meaning. That was not an endorsement of Promo. Quite the contrary. As I was typing, I was thinking if a powder was worse than Promo it just wasn't worth using. Still, at $70/8lbs it has a following. I've never used Rex powders because I can't get them where I live and it costs too much to have them shipped in.
     
  8. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,124
    Location:
    Northampton PA
    When my supply of cheap PB disappears I will shed many tears. The best stuff I've tried in 45 years!!
     
  9. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,457
    Location:
    SE PA
    oleolliedawg, I'll take all the American made PB off your hands right now. That way you can go through withdrawal while you're still young and able to bear it. If you wait too long it will be miserable.
     
  10. smartass

    smartass TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,099
    methinks blackie is a bit confused. Promo is very good powder and is used by many. It throws as well as any other powder (except for spherical powders) by volume. Exactly how "erratic" were the chrono values?

    How about facts rather than ignorant babble.
     
  11. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,124
    Location:
    Northampton PA
    zzt, and to think I sold a bunch of it to one of my buddies before I tried it!!
     
  12. FarmerD

    FarmerD TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    781
    "Promo is very good powder and is used by many. It throws as well as any other powder (except for spherical powders) by volume"

    BULLSHIT! suomynonA
     
  13. smartass

    smartass TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,099
    Mr Bullshit blackie, There are plenty of people around who have extensive experience with Promo. If you want to think we are all full of blklab, then that's your business. I suspect you have some kind of bias in favor or Rex, possibly you sell it.

    I noticed that you failed again to say what the performance deficiencies regarding Promo you noted on your chronograph. Put facts where your mouth is or just continue to be a blowhard- your choice.
     
  14. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,912
    I for one have never had a problem with Promo.I have weighed several loads and found very little varience. I have never had a weak sounding shell or blooper with it and the pattern sheets I shot with it are very good. I have tried about all the fast powders. Red Dot is still my favorite, followed by 700-X. Then Promo and Rex. Promo has the same burn rate as Red Dot although not as clean burning. Load for load I have found a varience of a half grain more with Promo than Red Dot, but nothing I can't live with, and I doubt if it makes much difference at the yardage I break targets at. I would not hesitate to use any of these powders. Also I haven't heard any complaints by anybody I know using Promo.
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    e-3 is a rather dense powder that provides a little more room for the wad and shot. It is an excellent powder and provides a little more versatility in loads than some other powders.

    Clay Dot is a direct competitor to the imported Clays. In my opinion, it out preforms Clays both in price and function.

    Pat Ireland
     
  16. smartass

    smartass TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,099
    Pat, I don't disagree with anything you said, but you really should point out that you have a bias toward Alliant powders since they're made in your state (actually practically in your neighborhood).

    I love Promo even though it isn't made in China. LOL !!!!!!!!
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Anonymous- Alliant powders are made about 10 miles from my home. I have many friends who work at the Alliant plant. My business depends on a strong local economy. If I wish to test my reloads for chamber pressure and velocity at -20, 70 and 130 degrees F with two different primers, I can make a phone call and Dick will stop by my home and pick up the shells on his way to work. He will give me the results in a couple of days. Do you suspect this might result in a slight personal bias?

    Actually, we have a rather wide choice of excellent powders. Some are imported and some are made in the USA. All will work well, but only Alliant powders will support the economy of SW Virginia and the Christiansburg Gun Club.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,003
    If a Chevy is so great, why are there Toyotas? Powder comes in MANY flavors and many people tend to try a few and settle on one. How do you get them to change? Offer an equivalent for less money. Clays @ $102/8# VS Clay Dot @ $83/8#. Almost twenty dollars difference might get someone curious enough to try some. If it works, $20 is $20. As for Promo, it is a little inconsistent between lots. It works about the same as Red Dot and costs about $70 per 8#. I will continue to use quite a bit of it, unless I find a better alternative that is readily available in my area. Cold weather means that primer selection is important with Red Dot and Promo. Winchester and Federal primers have done well for me. Remington and Fiocchi have had some issues in colder weather.

    I'm with Pat Ireland on supporting the local economy. I'm sure that shooters that live near other powder companies may wish to support their local company also. I see nothing wrong with Alliant, or Hodgdon, or the many other powder manufacturers. Most produce a quality product in every category. It's a matter of personal choice and economy. If I can buy one powder for almost half of what another costs, I HAVE to look at it and give it a try.

    So, Red Dot is as old as time itself. Promo is a "Budget" version, similar to Red Dot, e3 is one of the new cleaner powders, and Clay Dot is Alliant's entry into the Clays market. They all do fairly well when loaded appropriately. American Select is another offering that appears to have unusually consistent results when loaded properly. I used Clays when it first came out about 15 years ago. There are two loads I developed with it and I still use those loads, pretty much as they were 15 years ago. I have tried Clay Dot as an alternative and found that it does pretty well. I might replace my supply of Clays with it when I run out, since it is almost like a Buy 4, get one free deal at the reduced cost.

    Rex and certain other powders are usually not available for me nearby, so buying the "large Economy" size and shipping it, is NOT an option. You are limited to the 8lb size for shipping to the end user, plus the shipping and Hazmat fees would eliminate most or all of the cost advantage. If it were available in the "Large" economy kegs locally and fit my needs, I'd have to consider it.
     
  19. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,074
    Several years ago I switched from 700X to Clays.

    I have now switched from Clay's to Clay Dot with the same results. All good.

    Plus, Clay Dot sells for $20.00 less than 8 lb's of Clays.

    Uses the same setting on my adjustable charge bar.

    Hauxfan!
     
  20. dverna

    dverna Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,717
    Nice job piddie!!!!

    Amazing what a troll can get started.

    Don
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.