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I Want to see a Financial Statement from the ATA

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by whatta_attitude, Aug 22, 2010.

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  1. whatta_attitude

    whatta_attitude TS Member

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    Why are the very ones who make up the ATA not allowed to see a Financial Statement or Have a voice in anything other than funding this Sport?
    I want to know where all the relocation money that was paid year after year has gone but not a single person is able or willing to answer that ??
    Neil Winston you are on here a lot why cant you tell us some answers or you under a gag order also???
    Delegates its time to make your stand and do something with the power you have been elected to envoke.
    Each of us needs to contact our Delegate and simple ask them what there afraid of.
    I did ask Terry Roush at the Grand why Frank was suspended and his reply was he HAD NO CHOICE .
    Its a good thing I have a vote next year to take care of that answer.
    Time to clean house shooters or loose our organization.
    Experts say we have 5 years til the EC eats every dime ATA has left and the ATA will just vanish how sad is that.
    Thats not counting the fines there about to get for fraud since they have been told for the last 8 years it was broke.
    I still have a million questions but lets start with these
    Sandie
     
  2. duckeye

    duckeye TS Member

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    I think as a member in good standing that all of the members should get to see a financial statement as it is our money that is keeping this ship from sinking and the officers using our money any way they want to so I say show us a statement If I read the trhead here on TS I think it was somewhere around 131,000 dollars expenses and I would like to see all of that on paper also. I have always said that is the pres gets to go all over the country and has all expenses paid why in the h--- does he qualify for 16,500 dollar shotgun? That is not in good taste but it has been going on for many years. Also where did all that re-location money go? I think they should be held responsible for it and show where it went. As a lot of people have said it is time to clean house

    Duckeye
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    As has been posted at least 20 times before and announced at at least two open BOD meetings, the relocation money was used to purchase the Pat Traps at Sparta.

    A full, audited by Price Waterhouse, annual financial statement is distributed each year at each BOD meeting. This meeting is open to all members and a representative from Price Waterhouse goes over the financial statement.

    I know Terry Roush to be an open, honest, competent and very intelligent person and I am not surprised at his reluctance to disclose the detail reasons why the contract with Dr. Frank R. was not renewed. It is not common for employers to disclose such details. Frank was employed at the pleasure of the EC.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Experts say....

    Well, I found experts who say otherwise.....

    but, just for YOU...

    You should be able to contact

    937-898-4638 or fax at 937-898-5472

    Judy Harden
    Controller
    ext. 524
    jharden@shootata.com

    and tell them you request a copy of the tax forms.

    Or, You can do like I did, and just download them for 2006-2008 from Guidestar.org.

    Or, You can just bitch and moan on TS.com....
     
  5. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "Experts say we have 5 years til the EC eats every dime ATA has left and the ATA will just vanish how sad is that. Thats not counting the fines there about to get for fraud since they have been told for the last 8 years it was broke."

    Could you please elaborate further on who these "Experts" you are speaking of.
    I personally would be quite interested what the "Experts" have said about the situation. So any light you can shed on the subject might help get what is needed.

    Bob Lawless
     
  6. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    Patrick, the Pat Traps were bought before we left Vandalia. Are you sure Relocation money was used. Also, I seem to remember that there was over $2Million in the relocation fund. How much did the ATA pay for 120 Pat traps? Weren't they around $7500 each or $900,000. I hope the ATA got a better price buying 120 of them but if not that still leaves a pretty good sum in the relocation fund, or should have. Jim
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    This is what's wrong with TS.com and the total lack standards of truth so many here hold- or rather do not hold to. A prospective member might read Jim Menzoda's (perga1's) post above and think "Wow! Here's someone who seems to know what's going on. Where there's smoke there's fire. I don't know if I want to invest the annual fee of $20 in a sinking ship."

    The problem is that Jim simply doesn't know what he's talking about. Once again he's just making stuff up to make the ATA look bad. I don't know how people like Jim can look themselves in the mirror.

    Here's why he's is wrong, why he just once again has lied about the ATA for no discernible reason.

    Pat has posted a simple, true fact.

    Jim wonders if Pat knows the fact. Well, Pat was there, why wouldn't he? Jim was in Florida, apparently not paying attention or, more likely, planning how he was going to get back at the ATA for imagined injustices and here's the result.

    Jim then says the relocation fund was over two million. This is a total lie, it was about $360,000. How could it have been over two million, as it was was a bit collected from Grand entries for three years or so. Two million? From three or four thousand people, three or four times? Isn't that and least hundreds from each every year? Didn't they complain? No. Because it didn't happen. Anyone should be able to see it didn't happen. Jim should be able to see it didn't happen. But he types anyway.

    As Pat indicates, every penny was accounted for. The sitting EC thought that traps were a reasonable way to use the fund, and so Pat's were bought before we moved. The fund paid half the cost, more or less. The rest of the money came from the ATA treasury.

    In other words, Jim sentence

    "that still leaves a pretty good sum in the relocation fund, or should have. Jim"

    is completely and totally without foundation of any kind. Keep this in mind when next you encounter one of Jim's next anti-ATA posts and remember that he is completely willing to totally fabricate a case to smear the Association. He does it all the time. You just can't trust him at all.

    The same goes for Auctioneer, the absolute record-holder for total ignorance, WPT, poison by any other name, and now trapitude who writes "Experts say we have 5 years til the EC eats every dime ATA has left" which he either knows for a fact is not true or is simply too stupid to be trusted with a keyboard.

    Neil
     
  8. shelly

    shelly TS Member

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    I think Winston owes Jim an appology for that hateful rant. Jim had his facts wrong, but that doesn't make him a monster. I've never seen an anti-ATA post from Jim, just anti-ATA leadership- there is a difference. I think Winston needs a vacation.
     
  9. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The fact is, Shelly, Jim has every detail wrong. Every one. And challenges Pat and the ATA's accounting anyway. I owe him nothing. He owes the ATA an apology for misleading people about the finances of the ATA in the way he did.

    Neil
     
  10. happytrapper

    happytrapper TS Member

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    Here we go again more crying and bitching. I wish these crybabies would go away. Most of them don't know there --- from a hole in the ground. Just want something to cry about. Not one of them would volunteer there free time to help run the ATA. They just want to BITCH and make thing worst for the rest of us. Please go away
     
  11. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    "Here's why he's is wrong, why he just once again has lied about the ATA for no discernible reason."

    Neil you vindictive SOB. I never said Pat was wrong I asked a question.
    "Patrick, the Pat Traps were bought before we left Vandalia. Are you sure Relocation money was used."

    Show me the lie Neil.

    And Neil, another dumb and vindictive statement:

    "Jim wonders if Pat knows the fact. Well, Pat was there, why wouldn't he? Jim was in Florida, apparently not paying attention or, more likely, planning how he was going to get back at the ATA for imagined injustices and here's the result."

    Neil, I was at the Grand in Vandalia the year the Pats were installed not back home in Florida. Try gettin YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT before you throw stones.


    Then you say:
    "Two million? From three or four thousand people, three or four times? Isn't that and least hundreds from each every year?"

    Are you saying only three-four thousand people shot at the Grand each year and only 3 or 4 days? Are those the numbers given to the IL contingent? (FYI, that's a questiuon Neil. Don't come back and say I lied and that I said those weren't the numbers given to the IL contingent).

    Further, back then the Grand carried a competition factor of 10 for grand week, that means a minimum of 4,500-4999, not three thousand as you loosely suggest above. In case you don't remember the Grand week was 6 days and prelim week was 5 days. Wasn't the relocation fee a daily fee? What was the total number of shooters for the entire Grand for each year the fee was collected?

    Was the relocation fee collected only at the Grand? That's another question Neil not a statement.

    So you see readers Neil will stretch the truth or perhaps even lie when he reads something he doesn't like and he will get vindictive and cast aspersions if it suits his mood or purpose at the time.

    No lies here just truth.

    BTW, I defended the ATA buying the Pat traps to many who thought it was a foolish expense since we were going to be moving in tha near future. Anxiously awaiting your less than honest attack.

    Maybe you do need a vacation.

    Jim

    P.S. Neil, I am not ant-ATA I am opposed to the way you and the GoB's keep the members in the dark. If I was anti ATA why in hell would i have spent $300 to become a life member. Why would I have bothered to run ATA registered shoots and sign up new mwmbers. If the leadership of this organization got its act to gether I would gladly promote the association again.
     
  12. FLAKETM

    FLAKETM TS Member

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    Never have I gotten involved in these pxxxxxx matches but I'm curious about these folks demanding a financial statement as though their life savings were involved. I pay $20 a year for my membership card. I can shoot registered targets, albiet not as many as I miss.
     
  13. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    This is obvious- there are rumor mongers in the world- they like trying to part of the news rather than reading the news.

    I can describe where these people work usually and how they interact with their employer on a daily basis.

    Here is what is obvious also- the ATA is a small organization and your very smal dues- go to cover administration.

    The facts all in controvery here are apparently available online and can be downloaded or requested by writing the ATA or by going to the annual meeting mentioned.

    Some people are rumor mongers and they are usually also cheap. These same people are usually whiners also. This is a fact of life and these people, who feel entitled, are what is wrong with the Unite States. These rumor mongers are why we are way behind the world now. Lazy is usually another characteristic of a rumor monger. You make the comparasion- identify the person and see how many of these traits you see.

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  14. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    The relocation fee was clearly printed in the Grand Programs and maybe the State Programs every year. All one has to do is find the programs for the years it was collected and figure it up.

    Mark Rounds
     
  15. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "Further, back then the Grand carried a competition factor of 10 for grand week, that means a minimum of 4,500-4999, not three thousand as you loosely suggest above."


    Well these are the attendance figures for the last dozen years at the Grand.

    1993 4669

    1994 4468

    1995 4171

    1996 4081

    1997 3910

    1998 3899

    1999 5000

    2000 3796

    2001 3856

    2002 3816

    2003 3726

    2004 3720

    I see 3 years that even come close to the figures you are talking about here Jim and one of those was the 100th Grand they had 5000 shooters.

    No exaggeration or untruth here is there Jim. Or are you just embellishing the facts a little???????????

    Bob Lawless
     
  16. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    As I recall, the relocation fee was collected on all events...not just the Grand day.

    Mark
     
  17. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    I'd like a show of hands of everyone who has stated something along the lines of "I'd like to see the financial statements".

    Now, those of you who have actually contacted the ATA office and asked for a copy, please continue to hold your hand up.

    That's what I thought. LOL.

    A couple of years ago one of the famous anti-ATA forces on here was complaining that he never could get any financial info out of the ATA. So I called the ATA office (don't recall who I talked to) and told them I'd like a copy of the prior year's financial statement. Their only question was where would I like it sent.

    Sandie - have you contacted the ATA about the financial statements? Did they tell you no? You certainly must be smart enough to know that trapshooters.com is not the place to make your request. You do know that, right? Who are the experts - post their names and some background on how they came to their conclusion?

    Why would anyone think that someone on who reads/posts on this board is duty bound to answer your questions or provide detailed information about ATA business? If you have questions about the ATA and their business, why not direct them to the ATA?
     
  18. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    I did as BigM-Perazzi did and suggested, and looked at the Form 990 tax forms. I also did a little bit of internet searching, and found the entire text of the "expert" probably alluded to in the OP above.

    Despite all the negativity, the "net assets" of the ATA have increased from $6,133,724 on September 30, 2004 to about $8,194,792 on September 30, 2009. This is all public information, and can be had on the internet.

    One can spin this in a number of ways. It includes investment income, and gain on the sale of property (Vandalia move? I'm only guessing at this point, before my time). It includes write-down of assets from "unrealized gains or losses on investments" (as in my 401k is now a 301k).

    Bottom line, from far away and squinting at the chart, the assets of the ATA have not been frittered away, in any sense of the word. The details might get scary as you zoom in, who knows? But, looking at the bottom line, one might possibly conclude the assets of the organization have been managed quite well, against a trend of declining participation, and in a severe economic downturn.

    This reflects my opinion as a private citizen and a former ATA member. It does not reflect any professional opinion on any financial condition or operations of the ATA. It cannot be relied upon when deciding whether to renew your membership.

    Danny
     
  19. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    perga, you are reasonably skilled in the question-form: "Have you quit beating your wife, yet?"

    And your straw men are admirable, as are your goal-post moves ...

    all of which say more about what YOU are saying than any 'answer' you seek.

    Your protestations of innocence and being misunderstood ring hollow.

    Bob
     
  20. whatta_attitude

    whatta_attitude TS Member

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    Scott,
    I did call ATA that was two years ago wonder how much longer I should wait and even pony express could beat that time.
    As far as Bitchin hold the phone duffus you havent heard anything yet ..when I find a cause I truely believe in then I go full forward to defend...
    Scott let me ask you this have you ever sat down with Frank Rively or Bob Glatz????
    And as far as my comment on Terry Roush He is the one who told me he HAD NO Choice but to vote Frank out wonder who put the duct tape over his mouth??
    Same people maybe who gagged some other people until they could get the Grand out of the way with as little fire as possible ..I am at the end of my rope with all this
    This is not the ATA of Mike Seitz or the EC or the Delegates its the ATA of the commom people who pay 20 a year or have lifetime memberships to a organization they used to be proud of.
    All I am asking my Delegate and all the other Delegates is to wake up and take the ATA back for the people whom elected them and believed in them to do the right thing!!
    Sandie
     
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