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I received letter from BATF

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by GrandpasArms, Jan 21, 2013.

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  1. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    The BATF is getting a jump on the "new laws" that might impact personal, face-to-face transfers. They are telling FFLs that they can do the background checks and charge an administrative fee. I have to wonder how many people will come to my office and pay me to transfer their firearms to their neighbor, best friend, or cousin.

    I posted a link to the letter.

    Larry Frieders |

    Grandpa's Arms, Inc. |

    340 Marshall Ave #100 | Aurora, IL 60506 |
    Monday through Friday, 9am to 5pm |
    Office: 630.859.0333 Cell: 630.992.7513 FAX: 630.859.0114
     
  2. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Larry: Probably not many, but with the way things are going today, and if I were not an FFL, I sure as heck would not take the chance of selling my personal arms to anyone I did not know very well.

    About the time we think it's OK to circumvent the background on someone, the gun gets stolen and then is discovered in a shooting or robbery. Then that becomes an open invitation to the BATFE to start making ones life a bit miserable.

    I would highly recommend to someone selling a personal firearm to spend the little extra to have an NICS check done; put that fee on the price of the gun. It's simple and quick on the computer, and they could save the PROCEED printout to cover their backside.

    The worst part in the above transaction in my state anyway, would be the non payment of sales tax, particulalry on a high dollar gun. Boy, I would sure not want my state revenue department looking over my shoulder ... it's just best to do thing right from the get-go.

    WW
     
  3. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    .

    State sales tax ?

    If one sells a used winter coat to someone for $10, or $100, are they supposed to report state sales tax ?

    .
     
  4. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    Hammer1;

    Sales tax is collected when the item is sold new. I am not aware that our state requires another tax when the item is sold again. Anyhow, we don't sell any firearm things retail - just the transfers. They're a service and not taxed as a retail sale. At least in Illinois.

    Larry
     
  5. Bernie K

    Bernie K Member

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    Try reselling a car and see if the state lets the tax go, not likely. Many resold items need tax paid to state. Those boys need all the money they can get to keep their pay up.
     
  6. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    Sale of personal property by someone who is not a dealer is not subject to sales or use tax. Sales of used property by a dealer is subject to sales tax, even if sales tax was previously paid on that item.
     
  7. oldgahchamp

    oldgahchamp Active Member

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    In New York State (formerly a free state) if you buy any taxable item outside of the state, you OWE the NYS sales tax on that item. I don't think many people follow that rule. Larry
     
  8. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    Just make sure whatever fee you charge, it's recorded, the IRS is nastier then the ATF!!

    They get miffed when people hide "income", unless your in political office.
     
  9. johnhefley

    johnhefley Member

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    Larry:

    I reckon plenty of folks would be happy to make transfers through FFLs if it were convenient.

    For my part, a face-to-face transaction is about as much hassle as I care to undergo - arranging a meeting time, place, and the risk of a "non-sale" if the buyer doesn't like the price, condition, etc. of the gun.

    Further, trekking out to the local gun shop DURING BUSINESS HOURS only to find the dealer too busy to make a transfer fee presents another level of hassle.

    In the end, politicians may legislate it. And we'll have to do it.

    Fortunately for me, I have located a friendly dealer in my area who operates out of his residence doing mainly online sales of higher end shotguns. (by the way, he's a dealer of Caesar Guerini shotguns here in Vermont, and I highly recommend him (shameless plug for anyone who wants to bother looking him up online)).

    This dealer is a lovely gentleman who always seems happy to take the business, and charges a modest transfer fee. The more I deal with him, the more I'm motivated to throw my business his way.

    jh
     
  10. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Here in Iowa we can get a concealed carry permit or a purchase permit. So far either will let you buy a firearm without the FFL calling in a background check because it has been done to acquire these permits.

    Would this still be the case with the new gun laws?
     
  11. RWT

    RWT Well-Known Member

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    dickgtax,

    "Sale of personal property by someone who is not a dealer is not subject to sales or use tax."

    So if I sell my used car to another individual and there is no dealer involved, neither of us have to pay sales or use tax????
     
  12. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    It depends on your state. In NY, used vehicle sales are specifically included. Also, generally once you go over $600 in "casual" sales of property it becomes taxable, regardless of the fact that it is used or that you are not a dealer.
     
  13. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    In California, sales tax has to be paid on car transfers from anybody. Not that I'd recommend that anybody do the following, I never would, never ever would, but suggest writing a bill of sale that shows the low price the purchaser paid for the bunch of parts and inoperable chassis that you sold.

    Not that I would ever do that, but I imagine it may have happened during past transactions. It is just so wrong, just so, so wrong to not pay a fair tax to the state. We must pay our taxes, and pay them justly and fairly.

    Be sure not to write any bill of sales that are misleading. It is just so wrong.
     
  14. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    in IL, they take care of the tax when you buy plates..


    tony
     
  15. Mapper

    Mapper Member

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    I was just watching Fox News and those guys seemed to be, at least, amenable to universal background checks. If they are talking that way, it probably is a done deal. Now, in order to implement this, does anyone think registration might not be mentioned? I think we just bought the farm.
     
  16. Harv Shell

    Harv Shell TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Tony's got it right, the tax is based on a sliding scale for private sales, not as bad as the regular sales tax. However, if you buy a used car from a dealer out of state, when you apply for plates in Illinois they charge you the full sales tax, just like you bought it from a local dealer.
     
  17. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    From the Illinois Department of Revenue Regulation Title 86 Part 130:


    Since the Act does not impose a tax upon persons who are not engaged in the
    business of selling tangible personal property, persons who make isolated or
    occasional sales thereof do not incur tax liability.

    Shotshell and Tony are correct about sales tax on auto's in Illinois. However,
    since the tax is charged when the buyer gets new plates, he winds up paying the
    tax.
     
  18. slic lee

    slic lee Active Member

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    Maybe the reason folks started FTF was FFL's were charging up to $100 a transfer.
     
  19. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    Chango, certainly you would go straight to h e double L if you failed to report the true purchase price to the DMV. Can't imagine the penalty if someone accepted cash for discounted services and failed to list the income at tax time.

    Robert
     
  20. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Nothing like gouging your fellow shooter......The most I've ever paid to a FFL for handling a transfer is $25 a year ago.
     
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