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HS Wads vs Non HS Wads in 28 and 410

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Recoil Sissy, Dec 6, 2010.

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  1. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    I don't load or shoot 28's or .410's. Maybe someone that does can answer a question or three...

    I just discovered Winchester makes WAA28HS and WAA410HS wads. Claybuster and maybe others make clones of them. I'm not sure if anyone still makes the non-HS versions - WAA28 WAA41. Winchester doesn't list them in their product line.

    Alliant's and Hodgdon's online guides specify HS wads for small gauge Winchester HS hulls. Those guides also specify the original versions (WAA28 and WAA41) in the old 28 and .410 compression formed hulls.

    At first glance the HS and non-HS versions don't appear to be interchangable. That is, HS wads seem to be specified for HS hulls and non-HS wads for compression formed hulls.


    So...

    What's the difference between small gauge HS wads and the original non-HS wads?

    What prompted the creation of HS wads in 28 and .410 but not in 12 or 20 gauge?

    Is there published data where the HS and non-HS wads can be substituted one for the other? For example, is there published data using HS wads in compression formed hulls.

    Thanks.

    sissy
     
  2. Hatshooter

    Hatshooter TS Member

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    win wads = expen$ive comparded to clone wads. the cloned hs wads are best with hs hulls in 28/410
     
  3. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    I load the PC orange .410 wad in the old style AA's. I load Remington SP-410 wads in the AA HS hull. All with Hodgdon H110. Works for me.

    I like the PC Blue 28 gauge wad in the old style AA with SR 7625.

    Jim Skeel
     
  4. Bob_K

    Bob_K Well-Known Member

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    For the WW 12 ga and 20 ga, the load data is the same whether it is the High Strength (HS) multi piece hull or the older Compression Formed (CF) hull because their internal diameters are close enough. This is not the case for the 28 ga and .410 bore. The HS hulls take a wad with a larger diameter overpowder cup. If one used the old style wads, you could experiemce powder migration past the overpowder cup, leading to bloopers. Claybuster still makes a clone of the 28 ga wad for CF hulls, in addition to their clone of the HS wad. They state that their HS wad in .410 will work in both applications. Personally, I'm using the PC Orange wad in my remaining CF .410 hulls.
     
  5. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    The HS wad in a 28ga is nearly 1/4 of an inch wider then a Winchester AA standard wad. If you compare a HS 28ga wad to a Federal 28ga wad you will see they are very similer in size, The hs hull in a 28ga is for the most part a straight wall typwe hull.

    The standard wad would allow for powder migration. I couldn't tell you if it would be bad enough to make a shell not go bang but there is a huge diffrence in the standard Waa28 wad and the winchester AA28HS wad.

    I can't speak to the other shells with the same authority so I will leave that to others. I have used the HS wads and they work great in HS hulls. I still have another 5,000 old style aa's and 10,000 old style claybusters to use up before I get to worried about loading the HS hulls other then for test purposes.
    The HS28ga hull is by far the best hull I have ever seen for teh 28ga. if I didn't have 1000's of older Remingtons and winchester aa's that take the tapered wad , I would use nothing else. I have already stock piled several 1000 of teh HS style 28ga empties for when the rest are worn out. Jeff
     
  6. Smithy47

    Smithy47 Member

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    I can tell you from experience, do not use the 28ga HS wad in the old style AA hull. You cannot seat the wad deep enough to work and you cannot pull it back out if you try to get it to seat.

    I had an old style AA mixed in with my 28ga HS hulls and could not figure out why my MEC press was not cycling full stroke. I then noticed the old style hull, pulled it out of the reloader. I could not get the wad out of the hull.

    Bob
     
  7. Hatshooter

    Hatshooter TS Member

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    usually use the old red dusters in 28 old aa's, blue pc in the remmy sts hulls. always CB HS wads in Win HS hulls in 28/410.
     
  8. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    "The HS wad in a 28ga is nearly 1/4 of an inch wider then a Winchester AA standard wad." Neat trick on a wad thats only just over 1/2" to begin with, so a wad that was 1/4" larger would not only be too big to fit in a 28ga hull, it would be too big to fit in a 12ga hull.
     
  9. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    "The HS wad in a 28ga is nearly 1/4 of an inch wider then a Winchester AA standard wad." Neat trick on a wad thats only just over 1/2" to begin with, so a wad that was 1/4" larger would not only be too big to fit in a 28ga hull, it would be too big to fit in a 12ga hull


    I suspect that I was thinking 25/ thousandths Ian ands I put 1/4 of an inch. It is enough diffrence that as stated above the wad can not even be seated in a standrd AA hull. I will take some pictures with a Mic to show the people who would like to learn the diffrence. Thanks for catching my error Ian. I would hate to misinform people but I am pretty sure the rest is accurate.

    Ian... I feel a lack of love in your post? Are you still upset that I outed you for selling stuff that was marked up a ludicrus % to people who might think they could otherwise trust you? I hope that isn't the case as I thought we had moved on? Jeff
    <img src='/uploads/superxjeff_2008_030312.jpg'
     
  10. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    As shown in my pictures, the HS wad is nearly 50 thousandths wider then a standard winchester AA28 wad. I put the mic on the Claybuster wads as they were virtually the same width at the base as the factory AA28ga wad.

    Also seen is the tradional Straight wall case wad the Federal pushin cushon version in 28ga. This wad was always the widest at the base and designed for the federal case. The new HS28ga wad is a full 25 thousandths wider then even the federal.

    This is why you never use standard wads in HS 28ga hulls as it could lead to powder migration as well as inconsistant pressure/velocity. Also explains why the wad doesn't want to fit into a standard hull.

    Think of it as putting a 55 cal muzzel lolader ball in a 50 caliber gun. Just about the same difrece at least as it relates to size. Jeff
     
  11. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    Jeff and all:

    Thanks for the explanations and education. They are much appreciated.

    sissy
     
  12. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Even before all this, there was a powder migration danger in 28 guage. After seeing a few people with problems, I took one of each type case and cut it off just above where the skirt sat. Then I fit various wads into each opening.

    What an education. The older Remington ribbed cases with a AA wad had a huge gap, and obviously were not a good match.

    So we still have the same situation, only more diversity yet with adding HS hulls into the mix.

    HM
     
  13. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Right you are Halfmile! I measured the remington PT28 ga wads and they were almost as large as teh Federal wad. They average about 520 or so the old style AA wad would be over 20 thousandths shy of the remington wads width. This also explains why teh PT28 is a poor choice in the STS hull. Just to big. Jeff
     
  14. Rebel Sympathy

    Rebel Sympathy Well-Known Member

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    Educational, Jeff, but not in a kind spirit. I wish we could all be courteous to each other - even while in disagreement.
    Mike
     
  15. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    I didn't start it Mike. Jeff
     
  16. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    "This also explains why teh PT28 is a poor choice in the STS hull."

    Maybe somebody should tell Remington.
     
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