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How to tell if barrel reblued?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by mflora, Mar 1, 2013.

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  1. mflora

    mflora Member

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    Curious. Just bought a used MX11 Combo. Beautiful overall condition but the wear on the parts doesn't appear to be uniform. Have owned 20+ P guns so pretty familiar w/ them. All #s match including wood. Wood and trigger very good, barrels virtually brand new w/ no wear or scratches anywhere!, however blue wear on top lever and firing pin holes are somewhat oval. Thoughts from you P gun gurus. Maybe I am just looking a gift horse in the mouth.
    Thanks
    Mark
     
  2. Tron

    Tron Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Just a general rule: If you think it's been reblued, it probably has been. Look for bluing in areas that there shouldn't be and look for numbers or insignias that are not sharp, etc. It stands right out even to an eye that isn't very well trained.
     
  3. Perazzi_MX8

    Perazzi_MX8 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I look at it different than most people. If it was done in a professional manner why worry about it. If some hack washed out all the pin and screw holes and rounded all the edges that's a different story. If you bought a collectors type gun, and the seller claimed it was all original, I would ask for a refund. A Perazzi that might have had the barrel professionally re-blued I wouldn't. If you saw a near new Ferrari on a lot with a scratch I'd be surprised. Most dealers would have it professionally repaired before offering it for sale. It takes a professional trained eye to see flaws in professional work. I hope it shoots well for you, my 2 cents.


    This is a picture of a man rust bluing new Perazzi barrels inside the Perazzi factory in Italy. I took this in 2008 and take notice it's all done by hand by humans. Slight imperfections in the finish can be expected even though these craftsman strive to be perfect.
    perazzimx8_2012_100915.jpg
     
  4. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    He looks a little skeptical, of you taking his picture. LOL
     
  5. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    No, He looks italian
     
  6. Perazzi_MX8

    Perazzi_MX8 Well-Known Member

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    He was asked by the interpreter and agreed to pose for me. But he does look a little unimpressed with an American tourist.
     
  7. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    How do they card off, in between the ribs and tight areas?
     
  8. mflora

    mflora Member

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    I guess I agree. If I have to ask the question at all, if reblued it is a heck of a job. Another possibility is that the receiver was used in another gun while the wood/barrels sat in a closet. Great gun and who cares.
    Thanks
    Mark
     
  9. Perazzi_MX8

    Perazzi_MX8 Well-Known Member

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    I agree it could be that someone used the gun with another set of barrels and just put the original ones on to sell the gun.


    Stl Flyn: I saw them using fine steel wool and cloth.


    It takes days to complete and finish a set of barrels. I was told it's the most time consuming part of producing shotguns for them. I stood next to a man who built an MX8 O/U Barrel while I watched. It was fascinating because he spoke enough English to explain it all to me as he went along. He assembled all the rib pieces, twisted soft iron wire to hold them, and soldered them all together. Here is another picture of it just before soldering.
    perazzimx8_2012_100916.jpg
     
  10. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    That would be one awesome tour to take, let alone the trip.
     
  11. Perazzi_MX8

    Perazzi_MX8 Well-Known Member

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    It was, and I would encourage anyone to do it. I just bought a round trip ticket to Milan, Italy from Denver. I scheduled a lay over in Amsterdam, so I could visit there too. I rented a car at the Milan airport and off I went. I used the same line at every Italian gun company I found in Northern Italy. I said, "Ever since I was a young boy, I wanted to see Italian Shotguns being made. I finally made it here in your great country" I wasn't lying at all, but they were very impressed with and old man telling them that story.

    I never made any reservations at all. I just drove up and asked to come in. I was not turned down by any one of the companies. I found the Italians to be very proud people and love to show off their skills. They all have security with gates and sometimes guards. They all were very nice and appreciated my horrible attempt at speaking some Italian and found English speaking guides for me. Even Beretta allowed me tour their facility, though they seldom allow people past the glass enclosures in the main facility. Some of the shops asked me not to take any photo's but that was fine with me. Beretta, Ceasar Guerini, Siace, Rizzini, Famars, and many more were happy to show me around. The Val Trompia road north of Brecia is full of gun factories and a shotgun lovers paradise. I was hooked as a young boy to see and hold a Beretta Side-lock Double that belonged to a friends grandpa. He was very proud to take it out of the leather and billiard cloth case and put it together for me. I have fond memories of that day. At Famars upstairs I was handed a Double Rifle that was ornately engraved, still in the white, stock was fitted but not finished and I was in awe. I asked who in the world was ordering such a rifle and was told it was the King of Spain one of their best customers. The man told me not to tell the King I held his gun before he did....LOL.

    Here is another picture at Famars where a man hand finishes the stocks with "Beretta Stock Oil" in a bottle that looked exactly like Tru-Oil in the USA. He said it was the same but Beretta likes to put their name on everything.
    perazzimx8_2012_100917.jpg

    perazzimx8_2012_100918.jpg
     
  12. SMITH47

    SMITH47 Member

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    Perazzi mx8

    after your visits did you change your mind about the companies ?
     
  13. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Re-bluing a non-collectable gun is not a concern, especially barrels. Except if the seller is selling the gun in "mint" condition.

    You can detect re-blued parts by checking the edges of barrel markings, even factory re-blue will show. T

    Mind you, ser. #s on the barrel can be filled and re-stamped to match receiver, it's not a violation of gun laws in the U.S.

    Monobloc can be polished to make it looks new or like new, it's been done repeatedly.
     
  14. Perazzi_MX8

    Perazzi_MX8 Well-Known Member

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    SMITH47

    No, not at all really. Some of them were incredibly small, and in my mind they were bigger than John Wayne, before I got there.


    I did learn one very interesting fact about who makes what. This area of Italy is full of shops and vendors who specialize in certain parts, skills or finishes. All of the small shops use the same shops to do bluing, case hardening, rib making, and many other specialties because it hard to have the equipment and skills under one roof. Only large places like Beretta and Perazzi do it in house. I would bet that 90% of the people living there work for the gun industry in some way, with most walking or riding a bike to work. Many locals told me they have never been past the large town of Brescia in their lives. All of the great Artist's are doing engraving work out of their home studio's. Every gun-maker literally kisses their butt to get them to do pieces for them, completely on the Artist's schedule, mind you. One of the prominent shops told me he doesn't really kiss their butt, but found giving them a case of their favorite wine speeds things up a bit. So gun-making is more of a regional effort by many people in the Val Trompia area.


    There are three valleys that come down from the Northern Italian and Swiss Alps to form this area that is incredibly small in places along the river. Val Trompia means 3 Valleys, I was told. It was never bombed in WWII because they made guns for both sides and neither wanted to damage the area. Lots of beautiful little Churches were saved as well.


    I would go there again in a heartbeat if I had the chance. I got a flight from Air Trans for $530.00 round-trip from Denver (2008) with almost a 2-day layover in Amsterdam. I prepaid my ticket to fly and to rent the car in Milan. I left home with $1,000.00 worth of Euros and $300.00 US Dollars. I was able to spend 10 days away from home and had the time of my life. I'm not even slightly rich but I sold a couple of guns to fund this trip because it was #1 on my bucket list. The flight is long, the time change is rough, and the driving was challenging but it was fun. I believe any Italian driver could qualify for racing in the US. I met locals to go out on the town with and I honestly slept very little as I was afraid I might miss something. The food and wine were great and very reasonable. I don't normally drink, but I had lots of wine with meals there. Anyone that wants to hire an amateur tour guide for cost, PLEASE let me know. HA HA .... I have a Passport and can leave in the morning!!!


    My only regret would be that my kids and grandchildren weren't there to share the experience with me. Duane
     
  15. Perazzi_MX8

    Perazzi_MX8 Well-Known Member

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    mflora;

    I'm sorry I got so off subject on your thread. I can only claim that sometimes I don't have the ability to shut up even though it's my original intention. I hope you enjoy your Perazzi and it works out for you.
     
  16. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Wow! There is $25,000 to $30,000 dollars of wood on that rack! I see they all get grip caps.


    That would be a neat trip. Sounds like it may not be all that expensive.

    Just so I am answering the original thread, it may be possible that the person shot it, and took really good care not to allow any outside damage to the gun.
     
  17. mflora

    mflora Member

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    No apology needed. Much more interesting than the pros and cons of a reblued barrel. Going to Italy later this year for the first time and your travelog has really got me excited. Have owned most of the Italian guns and currently have Berettas, Perazzis, a B. Rizzini and a Zoli. Can't wait to visit the area. Any other suggestions.
    Mark
     
  18. Perazzi_MX8

    Perazzi_MX8 Well-Known Member

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    Mark,


    Pick up a power adapter so you can plug in any electronics you want to use. Italy has a different type of plug and voltage than we have for electricity. Radio Shack sells them very cheap (Under $20) and I had no problem with my Laptop, cell phone charger, digital camera, or electric toothbrush. Also, carry your cash, credit cards and Passport in a money pouch. I got the one that hangs around your neck and is worn under your shirt. Never access it in public or in front of someone. I went to the restroom and got cash out as I needed it. I carried only what I needed in my front pocket. No wallet is safe as a tourist in Italy. We stand out like sore thumbs because of our American clothes. Rick Steves has some great books usually at any library about travel advice and what not to miss while your there.


    I drove all over Northern Italy from Milan, to Lake Como and into Switzerland, and all the way east to Venice. Venice was beautiful but you have to walk, take the water taxi or a Gondola to get around. If I would have more time, I would spend 2 full days there instead of a hurried afternoon. Checking out the unbelievable wealth of culture and history there seemed surreal to me. It's truly a spectacle for the rich and famous of old times, and of today. The richest people in the world would be impressed in that town on the sea.


    Another thing I found interesting was the local grocery stores. I saw and ate fruit and veggies that I have never seen before. Note: they consider it rude to handle the fruit and vegetables with your hands. Just pick up what you want and put it in your cart or bag. I got a real awakening from an employee putting fruit out, that I never understood one word of, in Gardone for feeling up the produce.


    Have a great trip and read up on the area before you go. Then you won't miss something that would be way cool for you to see.
     
  19. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Have to agree with Perazzi MX8.

    Why would you care? A good blue job is probably better than factory anyway.

    WW
     
  20. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    I have noticed that the monoblocks on current Perazzis have a very slight plum hue that you can see in bright sunlight. Or if you hit your guns with a flashlight in a dark safe. It is a slightly different color than the barrel tube or the receiver.

    I don't know if this applies to older guns or not.
     
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