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How to pattern for doubles?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by pb, Jun 2, 2008.

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  1. pb

    pb TS Member

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    I have patterned my gun for singles as 30-34 yds, and 40 yds for handicap. What distance are the 1st and 2nd shots taken when shooting doubles? Any patterning advice? Thanks!

    Jon
     
  2. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Depends on how fast you shoot'em, I'd say pattern at 30 yds & 40 yds?

    John C. Saubak
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    The only reason to pattern is to determine how a specific load works through a specific choke. A combination that shoots well at 40 yards will also shoot well t shorter and longer yardages. To compare patterns, it is much simpler to shoot all of them at the same yardage.

    Testing patterns is totally different from testing the point of impact. The POI determines the center of the pattern and has nothing to do with the quality of the pattern. It is very difficult to tell if the POI is three inches to the right when tested at 40 yards. It is easy to see this if the POI is tested at 13 yards.

    rmy- If a POI is one inch to the right at 13 yards, it will be 3 inches to the right at 39 yards (13 X 3 = 39) and 39 yards is close enough to 40 yards for me.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. pb

    pb TS Member

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    I am shooting my XT 30" with a mod and improved mod. (I shoot an 1100 for singles and caps) My singles are good, caps is improving, so now I need to work on the doubles game. So I am looking for some advice. Any and all welcome!

    Jon
     
  5. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Be aware that Browning factory chokes are more open than other manufacturers. When I shot a Citori, I had to use IM and Full because the Mod choke was only .012 constriction not tight enough for me.
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Mike- unless the shot is traveling in some other way than a straight line (ignoring gravity) how is it possible for " A reload with poor quality might pattern great at 30 yards.. but at 45 is very spotty..".

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Just remember that Doubles is the same as 16 yard Singles....except that you get 2 birds at a time.
     
  8. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    I myself pattern at 25 and 35.
     
  9. Dove Commander

    Dove Commander TS Member

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    Frank Hoppe had a great series of tips on doubles in past Trap and Field issues. See if you can borrow some back issues. His main point was to shoot the first bird quickly, but with control, so the second bird was still rising. Both barrels could be the same POI in that case, or atleast close. I've found that to be the case. 95 ave. I shoot LM/IM on my 16 yard setting minus 1 shim. Don't worry about loads. Concentrate on consistancy, and staying into the gun on the second shot.
     
  10. Dove Commander

    Dove Commander TS Member

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    rmy, there is so much BS on this site, I wouldn't listen to anyone unless they gave me their ATA#. ps: chokes do matter.
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    PerazziBigBore- I understand your point and like you, I only reload with the best components I can get. I also have 50 flats of new AA shells and only have two boxes of Estate shells that I will use for something.

    But, it is demonstrated, on nearly a weekly basis, that a shooter using less than the best shells and shooting well can beat me when I use the best shells and shoot poorly.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    pb, if you just shot modified or tighter for the first shot, IM but better full for the second you'll probably do as well as you would by patterning it.

    If you do pattern a guess would be 30/32 (more or less) yards for the first, 38/40 (more or less) for the second. You might learn something, but probably only if there is something wrong with your shells or your shell-selection theory.

    Neil (generally AA in doubles, 10,000 a year.)
     
  13. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    pb, I'd modify NW's advice a little, because if you shoot a Browning or a Beretta, and possibly some others, what is marked on the choke is BS. So I'd say between .016" and .024" for the first shot and between .024" and .032" for the second shot. It depends on how fast you shoot.

    I have said several times I prefer .016" and .024" for my doubles chokes. They work well for me. However, I have subsequently found out there is no difference in the number of my first bird hits regardless of what I use. 7/8oz to 1 1/8oz- no difference. .016 to .024- no difference. Cheapo shells like Rio, or premium shells, or my handloads- no difference. Zero difference for the first shot.

    Proper technique makes far more difference than choke and load. So if you want to pattern, estimate the distance you take your targets at. Then pattern at those distances until you find a choke and load that puts 80% of the pellets into a 30" circle at that distance. If you don't want to pattern, use the choke and load you use for singles for the first shot, and the choke and load you would use for mid-yardage handicap for the second.
     
  14. pb

    pb TS Member

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    So I guess I will just shoot my Mod and Full. Is there any consistency to how open Browning chokes are? Do most Mod chokes run about 16 not 20? What about IM or Full? I need to get someone to check mine for me. Could be time to order some aftermarket chokes.

    Jon
     
  15. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    pb,

    Browning chokes run a little on the loose side, invector plus;

    full--.030", IM--.020"

    John C. Saubak
     
  16. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Gary ... great point and to take that point a little farther I wonder what he exactly did back in the 50's? All the current day sages of TS.com and our sport live by all modifications and chokes and special loads and everything else they can buy or do to supposedly improve there shooting but I wonder if any of that was available to the fantastic Hall of Famer's of the past? Just some things to think and ponder about when trying to buy a better score.

    Now in regards to pattern for doubles ...

    Go out and purchase a extra wide open long extended skeet choke, the longer extension and wider open the better. Now when you get this choke screw it into the gun and mark it so you know the relationship of the choke to the barrel. Now take that choke out and this is why you need a super long extended choke and begin to squeeze that choke in a vice. Yeah I know ... it sounds weird and this is why I mention to mark it so you know the relationship to the barrel but begin to squeeze it down to flatten and widen the pattern. Now dont squeeze it down so tight that it will restrict the wad or anything but squeeze it down enough to get the pattern maybe about 6 or 8 feet wide at about 20 or 25 yards.

    Now when you shoot that first shot and if you can shoot it fast enough out of the house with that wide of a pattern you may be able to break both targets with the first shot which if you can do that will save you lots of money in the long run not having to take that second shot.

    Good luck and happy doubles shooting.


    DISCLAIMER: WHILE THINKING ABOUT THE ABOVE SUGGESTION AND REALIZING THAT THERE ARE PROBABLY A FEW THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY TRY THE ABOVE I REALIZED HOW STUPID THOSE IDIOTS WOULD BE SO TRY THE ABOVE AT YOUR OWN RISE AND YOUR AN IDIOT IF YOU RISK IT.
     
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