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How many can you trade without own FFL?

Discussion in 'Want to Buy/Trade Threads' started by Steve W, Aug 3, 2010.

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  1. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    I know many of you buy and sell firearms frequently, have anyone got questioned by BATF that you might need your own FFL if you keep doing so?

    I spoke to BATF once for the same question, they said there're no set number of transactions in a year for them to consider you are a dealer, but they said one could be subject to investigation if you keep trading in "noticeable" numbers.
     
  2. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    I suggest you look up the definition of a gun dealer according to the BATF. When you get done shitting yourself you may have a different way of thinking. Jeff
     
  3. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    As many as you want to as long as they are legal to own where you live.

    ATF is a government agency that oversee's dealers who buy and sell, new and used firearms. They are a kickback from our days of trying to outlaw alcohol. When that failed, the Fed's couldn't stomach putting all those agents on the unemployment line, so they created the ATF.

    Now I hope you have a better understanding of why the government doesn't like "private" sales between citizens!
     
  4. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    What Jeff said. If you sell ONE gun with the intent of making a profit and/or livelihood, you can be considered a dealer, if they are in the mood to say that.

    If you sell 30 guns to trade up or get out without intending to "engage in the business", then it just depends.

    A customer of ours who buys many guns, shoots them, tires of them and sells them at gun shows, was interviewed by BATFE after a number of them were used in crimes.

    He did not try to profit off them, he is just in that phase. BATFE told him to cease, or get a license. They had shadowed him and knew enough about him, his stomping grounds, visitors, house dog, etc., that he got the point.

    Now, when he dumps a gun, he sells it on the net and lets us transfer and ship.

    As a dealer, I must say that the local BATFE is very lenient on honest glitches. If you goof up, they will let you know, and often allow the error to be corrected, with a "don't do this again" letter.

    BUT, if you try to put one over on them, or keep doing dumb stuff as a dealer, you can get in over your head real quick.
     
  5. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Couple of my FFL's customers got visited by BATF because they're interested to know why they buy so many guns, and they want to see those guns, in their homes.

    This is happening.
     
  6. Rebel Sympathy

    Rebel Sympathy Well-Known Member

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    Steve:
    I don't think you're going to get a lot of answers to a question like that on a public forum. Simply stated, a lot of folks who are doing it won't reply...
    Mike Durhan
     
  7. dcb_wvu

    dcb_wvu Member

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    Without a being a gunsmith or having a retail space for Gun Sales, good luck getting an FFL. Buy and sell at will, just don't deal in handguns. Handguns do have to be tranferred through an FFL, long guns no, but don't get caught with either in New Jersey!

    DCB
     
  8. SirMissalott

    SirMissalott Active Member

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    You mean to tell me Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms is a government agency? All this time I thought it was a night club in Texas???
     
  9. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    DB is right When nics was started they said that all records would be deleted
    Remember that?? That is BS I have a customer that has a problem with a SS number and he is allways "delay" till I get the "other person" on the line clears in 1 min when they find the right person that was not in the system. Everything you bought is in the system. The problem is many many times the serial no is not in the system Typos?? maybe
    Here is another one . Same person buys 5 guns you know him personaly. You have to do a 4473 on every gun if not bought at same time. over 3 and you have to send report and hold till get a release.
     
  10. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    There is no simple answer to this question, as just exactly what constitutes dealing is not well defined. However, as an example, if you show up at a table at a number of gun shows during the year selling "personal" weapons, (and ATF agents regularly attend many gun shows undercover), the ATF might logically conclude that you are, in fact, "dealing" in firearms sales as a business. If you have no FFL, then big time trouble. Similarly, if a C&R licensee's records indicate the acquisition of many firearms, and their disposition (sales?)in a relatively short time after acquisition (say weeks or just a couple of months), then the ATF might logically conclude that you are either engaging in firearms "dealing" or perhaps in "strawman" purchases for others. In either case, you would likely be in a lot of legal trouble. So the real answer is that it is likely fairly subjective, depending on things like how the "sales" are done, how likely it is that ATF can "observe" the acquisitions and sales, and so forth. A "few" firearms over the space would not likely trigger alarms as this is fairly normal for collectors, shooters, etc. But a lot (whatever a "lot" might be defined as) might just trigger further investigation if such sales were observable by ATF.

    Jim R
     
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