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How does option money effect shooter membership

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dr.Longshot, Feb 15, 2009.

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  1. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    I would like to explain another reason for shooters leaving ATA membership.


    I am going to use a shoot size of 1500 shooters with all shooters playing lewis
    Lewis class entry is $10.00 4 classes divided 60/40%
    Total of option money is $15,000.00

    1st place $2250 first lewis class
    2nd place $1500

    1st place $2250 second lewis class 8 scores are paid with this option
    2nd place $1500

    1st place $2250 Third lewis class
    2nd place $1500

    1st place $2250 fourth lewis class
    2nd place $1500
    ------
    $15,000.00 total option money

    Now I am going to use 4 lewis classes divided 50/30/20 %

    1st place $1875 first lewis class
    2nd place $1125
    3rd place $750

    1st place $1875 second lewis class
    2nd place $1125
    3rd place $750

    1st place $1875 third lewis class 12 scores are paid with this option
    2nd place $1125
    3rd place $750

    1st place $1875 fourth lewis class
    2nd place $1125
    3rd place $750
    ---------
    $15,000 total option money



    In the 60/40 % top score shooters got $375 more money
    second score shooters got $375 more money

    now remember only 8 scores got money that equates 2 to scores of 200 & 199
    got money
    This type of lewis class is designed for the top shooters
    now I understand there are 3 more classes but still only 6 scores are left to get any money, usually it means that a score of 198 does not hit money.
    then it comes down usually to 197 & 196

    with 4 scores left to hit money possibly 193 & 192
    now 2 scores left to hit money possibly 189-188



    Now using the 4 lewis classes of 50/30/20%

    scores of
    200
    199
    198

    196
    195
    194 remember now 12 scores got paid money
    more shooters hit money and more likely
    would retain membership in ATA
    190
    189
    188

    183
    182
    181

    I consider myself to be in the upper 1/3 of shooters and when we had the latter
    4 class 50/30/20& lewis class I usually got my entry fee back and it did not cost as much to shoot, mabe just the cost of reloading supplies.

    If the ATA would have stayed with the latter lewis class options shooter retention would have been greater.

    The advent of the GREAT EASTERN PURSE for handicap was another GREAT ADDITION

    that amounted to the top 6 scores hiutting the money, it paid 25/15/10/25/15/10
    the top 6 scores and not HIGH GUN that would relate to 100-99-98-97-96-95 if the top score was a 100. if it was a 99 then 99-98-97-96-95-94 would hit money.

    This is my personal opinion of the 60/40 lewis class that contributed to the loss of shooters.

    Now ask who was responsible for the change in the lewis classes from the 1970s
    era? That person or group started the poor retention of shooters.

    I used to hear shooters talking around the eating ares I HIT THE LEWIS CLASS
    maybe it wasn't much, but they hit the lewis and were EXCITED.

    You don't hear that any more. I personally have missed the lewis class by one target so many times I just quit playing options and cut way back on shooting
    registered targets, I shoot around 300 to 500 targets a week shooting buddy matches and I make a few bucks, and have a lot of friends that shoot buddies
    and calcuttas.

    Cost is a lot less and greater satisfaction, and I don't have to wait hours for the next event to start, get at home at a decent hour and still have time for the family.


    Again this is my personal opinion and I am entitled to it.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  2. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I was looking at the SOUTHERN GRAND program and was wondering how this option would pay and how many if any places as it is a high gun option.

    IT reads CLASS PURSE-one money each 5 entries high gun, it reads ONE MONEY
    could somebody relate to this in a previous payout on this option, did it only pay one place? Just the facts on a previous payout at SOUTHERN GRAND like last year.

    This is on the 16 yard singles event, it appears to be on all 16 yard events.
    I stand corrected it is also on some of the DOUBLES events.

    HI_GUN options are geared to the top shooters.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  3. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Gary: Don't bet any money, problem solved.
     
  4. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Nov 6, 2006
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    3,707
    "I personally have missed the lewis class by one target so many times I just quit playing options and cut way back on shooting registered targets"

    Good riddance.

    This is my personal opinion and I am entitled to it.
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    9,556
    I am sure someone could calculate the future value of a $10 option wager made at the cashiers window by a typical Class B 22 yard shooter.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. stanky feet

    stanky feet TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    54
    I personally hear shooters talk about this all the time,and believe that this along with 1300fps shells are harder on trap than the 2 hole target.Also there are other problems with the options that I will not mention for fear of deadly reprisals.BTW,Brooks,if you dont play the options and dont seem to shoot very many targets,why is it that every time someone mentions this you get all fired up?I do not mean this in a mean or offensive way,just wondering.By the way I would like to personally thank you for letting everyone on here know about the bull$$$t going on in politics!I for one appreciate it!
     
  7. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Actually Mr.Feet, I am averaging about 10,000 registered targets a year and probably more than that non-registered.

    I will occassionally play a lewis for fun, in fact yesterday my 99 in singles took top lewis for $46.50. Putting up an acceptable score was more rewarding and I felt very lucky that one of the other shooters didn't shoot 100.

    However, unless you win, lewis is just a fun gamble with lousy odds. I don't think many people would take up trap just because there was more gambling involved.

    My point is that Gary doesn't shoot much registered so why should he care? He keeps putting up posts about the ATA, 3 hole targets, Grand Slams, etc.
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Unless you have a good chance of breaking them all, the Lewis is a bad bet. After all, you are betting even money on a purse which has been depleted by 1/4 or 1/3 (most places) before you get a whack at it. But Gary is right, more places pay off more people, which is why the Grand pays so many classes.

    Neil
     
  9. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    6,625
    Location:
    Michigan
    I too have noticed that Gary the "I don't shoot registered" has more opinions than most on here on how to correct what he thinks is broken. The fact that he doesn't know who controls the purses at shoots is quite evident of his knowledge factor.

    I just love it when the non-shooters start running off at the mouth at what's wrong with the ATA and trapshooting. They have all the answers they think and they aren't putting a dime into the sport. Side line setters.

    Don
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Neil,

    You are not betting even money in the Lewis. The payoff odds are unknown until all the scores are in. HMB
     
  11. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    BIG DON as of 2006 I shot 37,475 singles
    I shot 52,250 Handicap

    So I shoot a little registered, and being retired now it will be less.

    I don't know your real name as you never post it hiding behind an outhouse.

    If you would like to shoot against me from the OUTHOUSE bring your gun and your shells I will furnish the toilet paper.

    I think that is kind of putting it nice.

    An open invitation to a shootoff with style, or we could shoot from the hip I have been known to break a few of those too.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  12. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Why would a trapshooter want to shoot with an outhouse shooter?
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Gary- I know Big Don and I have shot with him. As I recall, when we shot together at Middletown last Fall, he was classified AA 27 A. He does shoot a lot of targets and he is a fine gentleman. He has posted his name in the past. I hope he survives both the harsh Michigan Winter and the harsh Michigan economic/political problems very well.

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. Post  2

    Post 2 TS Member

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    My personel opinion about the Lewis is that if you shoot good you get paid and if you don't shoot so good you still have a chance of winning some money. The Lewis is the only option that does this. The top dogs will almost always take the 25 and 50 options which is fine but I still have a chance in the Lewis. Post-2
     
  15. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    i don't think option money has much to do with it. I DO think $29-$30 targets DO.
     
  16. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    You are very astute Barry. J.W.
     
  17. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Gary thank you for the invitation. I guess you will have to show me how to shoot from an outhouse as the places I shoot have indoor plumbing. But it does sound like fun. To bad you don't shoot registered anymore maybe we could hook up with a little side bet. I am on my way to FL this week, come on down.

    As you said you don't shoot registered so what do you care. A couple more points if target totals are important you aren't even close, if age is a factor you might have me as I'm 68 and still working, I don't hide from anybody least of all you and I have been on this site for many years. If you want to start a peeing contest pick somebody else.

    Don
     
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