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How does "Known Ability" work?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by brent375hh, Jun 15, 2010.

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  1. brent375hh

    brent375hh TS Member

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    If my average is a 91, but I have a 96 on my average card, can a classifier
    bump me into B class because of "known ability"?

    Thanks
     
  2. gunner x

    gunner x TS Member

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    Absolutely! Its based on his or her discretion. Welcome to the ATA.

    Gunnerx
     
  3. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    It really depends on how many targets you've registered in the current TY, and previous. The fewer targets the better the chance for a class bump I'd think from my experience.



    A "fluke" 96 surrounded by a butt-ton of 87-92's shouldn't get you bumped in most cases.


    Pat Ireland is a Master Classifier and sage counsel.. go with what he says.



    Guy Babin
     
  4. Dennis McC

    Dennis McC TS Member

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    How many times have you seen someone claasified lower because of recent (last 500) scores? Why does it only work one way? Known ability should be used sparingly, in my opinion.
     
  5. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Dennis on this one. Exceptionally high score will get ya moved up, but how long has it been since a shooter was moved DOWN by an exceptionally LOW score? Should work both ways, but-----does it? Really?



    Gne J
     
  6. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

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    An abnormally low score is normally "thrown out!"

    SW
     
  7. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    AW, to make it even, why isn't and abnormally high score also thrown out? A shooter can have a really bad day as well as having a really good day. Why get penalized for having a good day?

    Is that the ATA way?

    Gne J
     
  8. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    It is the way of the ATA. How would you like to be coded for shooting 1 good handicap score every year or two or three? It's the way of the ATA. JRM
     
  9. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Often depends on who you are or know!!
     
  10. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    The "Know Ability" may be the worst ATA rule there is. I have been in this sport many years, and the only "Known Ability" I have seen is the top pro shooters prove they can break perfect scores in all events consistently. I have never seen it applied to any of them!

    Mark Rounds
     
  11. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    The basic reason for the rule is to catch the fellow that has an established registered average that keeps him in C class, for example, but you have watched him in practice at the club running 100s, or very close, on a regular basis or consistent high score winnings in club shoots or leagues.....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  12. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    One good score will not get you bumped a class - unless the guy classifying "knows" you are a "target manager". If someone shoots low 90's at local shoots and pops a few 98's and 99's at a State shoots or Regional Grands they might be considered a "target manager". No one has much sympathy for them. But one good score will not bring the wrath of Zeus. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally. It is why we use averages.

    I have only shot about 20,000 registered targets in the four years I have been shooting ATA and have never been treated unfairly. I am a nobody, so the guys classifying were not treating me "special".

    If you think someone has been too aggressive, I believe you can request a review of your classification at the bigger shoots.

    Remember, these guys want happy customers that come back next time. Therefore they will generally be on your side.

    Shawn made a good point. You may be a B shooter and not know it. You can download the class averages from the ATA web site. Note that different size shoots will have different average ranges. The program will tell you the number of classes being used.

    Don Verna
     
  13. brent375hh

    brent375hh TS Member

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    It is a 6 class system.

    I have only 700 registered birds. 94,90,96,82,89,96,93. 91.428%

    Perhaps the median instead of average, that would be a 93 in my case.
    If you threw out the 82, the average would be a also be 93.

    To drive several hours to find out a buddy system is a deciding factor would be reason to stay with club shooting for me.
     
  14. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    I sometimes classify in Alaska...based on those scores I would put you B.

    new shooters (without any history) usually start in B and are then adjusted up or down as they build some scores.

    But the main reason is that, of the 7 times you've shot, FOUR of them have been solid B scores, and two of those are decent A scores.

    Lastly, in Alaska we use a 5 class system...B is 91-94, A is 94-97, and AA is above that. If the average is truly 91.4, you have a B average AND more than half your scores are B scores.

    B class, next please. Nothing buddy about it.
     
  15. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Known ability may be applied for ANY known scores shot. OR, one can get a yardage increase also depending on who knows who on the CHC, regardless of what your averages happen to be!

    Hap
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    brent375hh- First, known ability is what is on your card or knowledge of a major win. The two fine scores on your record (96) are not high enough to justify bumping you a class. Your current average on 700 targets is is a Class B average and that is how I would classify you at a shoot that had five classes.

    Known Ability example-- If you had a 91.4 average with 700 targets and two or three 100 straights, I would put you in class A unless you had recently suffered some medical problem that affected your shooting. . Or, if you had a 91.4 average and your last score was 100 and you won your class championship at your state shoot with that score, I would discuss the situation with you and together we would arrive at a decision that we think is fair to both you and the other shooters. I frequently discuss things with shooters. When I do that, the shooter involved almost always suggests a higher class. Another example-- If you were a 27 yard shooter and had a AA doubles average and a 91.4 singles average, I would talk with you about what is fair. Another example- If you had a current 91.4 average and a 97.6 average in 2009 and a 97.8 average in 2008, we would have another short discussion.

    Keep in mind that it is the shooters responsibility to make sure he is classified correctly.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    I have never been a fan of the known ability rule as I find it way to vague. It leaves to much room for the classifier to use his own prejudice into the classification of one or many shooters. As an example Hap said,

    "one can get a yardage increase also depending on who knows who on the CHC, regardless of what your averages happen to be!"

    That says exactly what is wrong with "Known Ability".

    BTW Mr. Rounds said,

    "I have seen is the top pro shooters prove they can break perfect scores in all events consistently. I have never seen it applied to any of them!"

    Well all I can say to that is if you are a AAA 27 AAA shooter how would you apply "Known Ability" to that? Doesn't seem to me like you could bump them up a class or any yardage now does it.

    I have already stated I am not a fan of the "Known Ability" rule but please give us objections that make sense.

    Bob Lawless
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Bob- What would you replace the known ability rule with? If you sit at a classification table for 30 minutes, it becomes very clear that we cannot rely only on averages.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    No classes, if you have 100 shooters in an event, the top 20 scores are rewarded. HMB
     
  20. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    A very maligned rule but an important rule if used correctly. The more sage the classifier with the most information does the best usually.

    The word gets out on folks who manage their scores. They stick out like a sore thumb and they need to be controlled to protect the honest shooters.

    Added yardage or increased class is rarely assigned because of a single high score or two. It is usually assingned after years of screwing the system.
     
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