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HOW does he hit that first doubles bird so quick?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by crusha, Jun 7, 2009.

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  1. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    He was seeing them fast, that's all there is to it.
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    It is called trapping the first bird.

    1. Hold a level gun.

    2. Hold on the path the first bird will take.

    3. If you are right handed watch the bird come out of the house with your left
    eye.

    4. As the bird approaches your gun, about half way between the trap house and
    your gun, pull the trigger and move to the second bird and shoot it.

    5. Hard to believe that you shoot the first bird with your left eye and the second bird with your right eye.

    6. Since you take the first bird at about 21 yards a skeet choke works just fine. HMB
     
  3. Big Al 29

    Big Al 29 TS Member

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    spot shot.

    Pull - bang!

    Its easier said than done. Use a very open choke, skeet even.
     
  4. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Watch Mike Tucker from Arkansas shoot the first bird, he will show you fast!
     
  5. AAtrap

    AAtrap Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that there are very few GOOD doubles shooters who truly "trap or spot shoot" the first bird. As Buzz mentioned;he just sees the target quickly and clearly. I'd bet there is a very slight verticle move before the shot and moving to the second target. If you are going to truly try to learn to "trap" the target, you'd better plan on spending a lot of time, money, and effort at the practice range.JMHO---Steve
     
  6. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that from each station the first bird would be at a certain point consistently, so I just pre-mounted my shotgun and covered that spot. Didn't have to move the gun at all. Fired, then swung to the next bird.<br.
    <br>
    Of course, this is harder to do on trap fields where you haven't memorized the background.
     
  7. BMC

    BMC Member

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    Sportshot, several years ago I watched Jeff Holguin shoot doubles at the state CA state shoot and still to date it is one of the most memorable things I've watched in trapshooting. About the only person I've personally seen that shoots the first target as fast as I've seen Jeff is Joe Roby (TM1). I asked Jeff how he did it and after some pointers I tried it when I got home by simply having the trap set to straight-away and standing on three trying to see if I could trap on color. It wasn't a very successful adventure and quickly realized I didn't have the reaction timing experience to shoot the first target like that.

    Fast forward a year or so later and I found that when I was in the groove and shooting doubles well I could hold lower and lower and trap the target more than "blip" the barrel up to it as most normally do. Its an amazing experience when the mind is timing the flash of color just right and it is working. Problem is most of us have a hard time maintaining that timing through a full 50 pair. I certainly do. And it results in more than a couple lost first targets. When trapping on color flash you have to be dead nuts on timing or its a loss. The window of success is micro compared to a more traditional moving the gun up to the first target in flight and shooting it. There is a little larger margin for error. If the brain timing is off a pinch you can probably still get a piece of it.

    While I love to spot shoot the first target only feet out of the house, pulling the trigger on the flash of color or the flicker of movement, I've found that my scores at the end of the round will generally be better if I pick a spot a little higher and blip the barrel up to it, then move on to the second target.

    And I have to admit that from what I've witnessed, it isn't always the fastest doubles shooter that wins. In the end consistency will usually beat speed. If a person has both, well they are the ones that give us great memories.
     
  8. johnjohn91387

    johnjohn91387 TS Member

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    I've watched David from TS shoot lots of doubles. (I have never seen Jeff Holguin to my knowledge.)

    I have never seen anyone faster than David in hitting that first bird, and I have told this to him at least once, personally.

    I see no perceptible gun movement, which to me means that he traps that first target.

    I swear that he calls for the bird and pulls the trigger at the same time.

    That may be a slght exaggeration, but it sure doesn't seem that way.

    I learned to call for the bird and shoot as soon as I see the streak of the first target, and I have had good success (for a "C" doubles shooter, that is) with hitting that first bird (I.C. choke, 1 oz of #8)

    It's the second bird that earns me my overwhelming .8557 average....... :)


    John
     
  9. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    Though I don't shoot doubles, when I want to I jump on the birds faster than I've seen anyone else do. With a full choke. It's more fun than anything else, but in shooting unhumanly fast I maintain an average of around 85, which is about 10 down from my actually average. I think it helps with quick target acquisition, but if nothing else it's a lot of fun!
    -Trappy
     
  10. quicky

    quicky Member

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    I love doubles and shoot as many of them as I can. Singles are like watching dry paint fade and I can't hit handicap targets at all. Took both my reductions back to 25 and am trying my best to become a good handicap shooter. Average about 88-89 in caps.

    When I am shooting doubles and it is working well it almost feels like I am detached and in another dimension or something like it. When it isn't working well I feel disjointed. It feels like it is 'flowing' when things are rolling along, and almost seems easy.

    I spot shoot the first bird, and miss about 1 every 200 targets or so. I almost always miss a second bird by being over it. I am always in line but missing over is my nemesis. I have found that if I shoot the first bird very quickly I am able to 'push' into the second bird much more effectively.

    My avg. isn't very high (.9482 on 4900 in 2008), but I shoot in a lot of very windy conditions as well. I don't pull for wind or rain because I will shoot them in anything. I won AA on Saturday with a 91 and a shootoff. The wind was blowing pebbles and gravel across the walkways during the event, and we were shooting hand-pulled targets because the wind was pulling targets across the speakers. (The hand-pulled targets can eat your lunch when spot-shooting the first bird, I missed 3 of them).

    Being stuck in AA is a bit of a bummer because some people have really mastered doubles. At a larger shoot it takes 100 to tie anymore, and I am almost always 1 or 2 birds out of contention. I just pick a 'name' shooter out before the event and try to beat him and consider the outing a success if I do so.

    Nevertheless, doubles, next to live birds and coyotes out of an airplane window, is the most fun you can have with a shotgun. Quicky
     
  11. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    It is helpful to watch the first bird break when trapping, this way you can make adjustments to your hold point and center up your hits.

    There are some advantages to trapping the first bird besides shooting the second bird while it is still rising.

    1. You can adjust the POI of the second barrel of your shotgun to be dead on the second bird.

    2. You can trap the first bird high or low depending on how the second bird is flying. For example if there is a tail wind and the second bird is flat, you can trap the first bird low and swing across on the same level as the second bird. HMB
     
  12. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Pick a spot where that first bird travels print this spot in your mind, hold you gun on this line of travel when bird comes to bbl smoke it, simple on first bird of doubles, now you figure out the 2nd shot.



    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  13. canada

    canada Member

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    How do you make a smooth move to the second bird? You make a smooth move to the first one.

    You can probably hit the first bird by spot shooting it most the time, but besides making that first target easier to miss by not following it, you also make a jerky move to the second target. There have been guys on this thread that say that they spot shoot the first target but then the second one is their problem. Again, the move on the first bird dictates the move on the second bird.

    HMB will preach over and over to spot shoot the first bird, to use skeet and number 9. To each their own, but I have never known a top shooter to spot shoot the first bird. They are obviously doing something right.

    Pat Lamont
     
  14. RickN

    RickN Well-Known Member

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    Aaaahh, finally advice from someone worth listening to.
     
  15. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I have seen more shooters than not hurt their doubles score by trying to shoot fast or trap the first bird. It really isn't necessary, there is plenty of time to see the first bird and kill it and get to the second bird while it is still high in the sky. Smooth and consistent work. If you feel rushed you are doing something wrong, remember panic results in wasted time.

    You also don't need special shells for each shot, an ounce of #8 will smoke both targets just fine. Keep your head in the game not in your ammo pouch trying to remember what shell to load in what tube.

    Leave the skeet choke at the skeet range, it will do nothing but make you sloppy. Use a modified on the first bird and Imod or full on the second. You want to smoke both targets, chips and chunks are warnings that you address on your next pair.

    Above all, see the bird shoot the bird. (both shots) Don't abandon this fundamental.
     
  16. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    While I'm far from an expert doubles shot, I have made it a point to study them, and how they are shot, by some of the best doubles shooters there are. I have noticed 3 distinct things that all, really good, doubles shooters have in common: 1) They are fairly aggressive to the first bird. The thing to note here is this: Even the fastest of the fast will take just a little more time on the first bird if he doesn't see it properly, or if the bird comes off the arm just a little off center. They ALWAYS seem to make the necessary adjustment to that target which tell me they do not just spot shoot it....... 2) They all have a natural "timing" to their shooting. It will very seldom, if ever, change, from pair to pair. They seem to get in sync with the pair and take them the same way every time..... 3) While they are all agressive, they all always seem very smooth and in total control over each shot, and make each shot one, individual shot. Gun control is the key sentence here. If, for some reason, the first target is not where it should be, they compensate for that, take the first target, and then compensate their move towards the second target to make the shot.

    I think a good doubles shooter is comfortable, confident, and in total control over each pair. If you closely watch the fastest doubles shooter you know, he still appears to be in total control over his gun and the shot. Gun speed in doubles is very much an individual thing. Being smooth, and staying in the gun is much more important than speed...... Just my observation... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  17. wopahoe

    wopahoe Member

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    The best advice I ever had was to shoot the first bird as fast as YOU can and the second bird is just like shooting a 16 yd. target. Look at the word YOU!!!
     
  18. Charlie Becknell

    Charlie Becknell Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Pat. If I am shooting doubles poorly it is usually due to being too aggressive on the first bird which then cause's ME to jump more at the second bird. If I am shooting poorly and feel out of sorts, holding higher on the first bird usually take care of the problem (if I could only remember this before they call me LOSS).

    Charlie
     
  19. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Listen to Dan. Everthing starts with the 1st shot. Throw some wind in the mix and see what happens to a lot of your fast shooters when the bird isn't where it is supposed to be.

    Don
     
  20. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Every good doubles shooter loads quickly so he can at least watch 2 pairs before he shoots. It helps to see what the previous shooter has shot. Dan Thome's post is one of the best explanations I've read. I shoot em fairly fast, but I never spot shoot or "trap" a target. I have seldom seen a perfect set of 25 pair, let alone 50 pair. Wind and machine imperfections prevent that.
    A better word would be "intercept" for the first target. Some adjustment is usually required, even if it's a split second, but the previous pair will give you some idea of what to expect, and where to hold for the first shot and where to send your eyes on the 2nd shot. "Smooth gun control" is good in doubles regardless of your speed. Good post Trap2.
     
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