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HOW DO YOU PROVE A SHOOTER'S A SANDBAGGER?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by senior smoke, Jun 17, 2010.

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  1. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    HOW DO YOU PROVE A SHOOTER

    Hello:
    Every sport has them, but how do you really prove that a shooter is a sandbagger? In the past 40 years in this sport, I have seen and heard numerous shooters called sandbaggers, but when confronted they either say they choked, or their shorts got tight, got nervous, causing them to drop targets so they don't get yardage. It doesn't take long before you know who they are, but how do you prove it, and what can be done to them? What about the shooter who who has a hot day and wins a big handicap from short yardage, are they sandbaggers too? In my opinion, there is no real way to prove that someone is a sandbagger. What can the ATA do to these shooters, if anything?
    Steve Balistreri
     
  2. fishguts

    fishguts Member

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    It's part of the game, like in poker, you only show enough cards to win......

    Wayne
     
  3. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Turn him upside down and shake him and see what comes out.

    Don
     
  4. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

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    The cure is easy - get rid of the averages based classes. That way the sandbagger only wins by cheating once.

    And make the game more difficult too. D class and children shooting 100 straight is ridiculous in a game that is supposed to be for MEN!

    JMO of course

    Charlie
     
  5. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    Look at their scores. If they consistently shoot low when shooting small value targets, like Big 50s and really small shoots where the purse barely covers your fees, then consistently shoot well at the larger shoots, this could raise some eyebrows.

    It's still almost impossible to tell. Anyone can have a good day.
     
  6. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    BIGDON:
    I am still laughing, good one.
    Steve
     
  7. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    semperfi909 - I hope I am misunderstanding your comment "D class and children shooting 100 straight is ridiculous in a game that is supposed to be for MEN! " I am pretty sure I get what you mean by the 100 straight but a game only for men??? As a former marine also, I respectfully just question what you mean?? Would you please explain?
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Did the ATA help the sandbaggers by starting the Big 50? HMB
     
  9. birddogs46

    birddogs46 Active Member

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    take a look sometime at a trapshoot, lots of us old guys shootin, those kids are the life blood of this sport, always glad when "children" break good scores, also what's wrong with women shootin good,that's what makes our sport so good, anyone can be a competier, on their good days..
     
  10. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    Seniorsmoke, you asked how can you tell who is a sandbagger, you should call Terry Roush, the NC delegate and southern zone CHC member. What can the ATA do? They can assign yardage, or code you so you don't get any reductions without approval from the trap GOD who applied the code. What can the shooter do? HE/she can appeal to the EC and have their appeal denied by a major sandbagging VP who went from 27 yards to 23 yards and then proceeded to shoot 96's and 98's at state shoots and then managing their targets to stay off the 27. JRM
     
  11. 391 shooter

    391 shooter Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if it's sandbagging, but, I have seen a fellow that maintains a 19 to 21 hdcp and by some mysterious reason every time the big 50's get to over 1500.00 he somehow by the grace of God is able to reach way down from somewhere and shoot a miraculous 99 or 100, amazing.
     
  12. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

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    How about "adults" as the game was originally conceived instead of "men" even tho it was they who actually made the rules? Or is that just tooooo not PC? Obviously it is now a child's game. Do you like playing children's games? Games so easy that a child can best you? Regularly? Standard stuff in American trap and skeet.

    There should be a reason for different classes. The only reason now is so there are more prizes since the scores in all the classes are interchangeable for all practical purposes. Averages based classes - the sandbaggers delight.

    I'm thinking I should get into this target management thing like the game's defenders seem to intend. That way I'll hardly ever have to worry about breaking them all. I mean, who would even want to? hahahaha
     
  13. brent375hh

    brent375hh TS Member

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    I for one did many things better when I was a teenager.
    I never worry about the day I break them all.

    I am always happy to share the line with children and that other half of the population (what do you call them again? oh yes, I remember, women) that are not men.
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    391 shooter- I, like you, would be amazed at a shooter who can shoot a 99 or 100 at a Big 50 shoot.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    I say bring all the kids that want to come. I am a big fan of getting kids ( boys or girls) involved and if we do not, "MEN" will have no place to shoot because trapshooting will dry up.
     
  16. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    If thats the only way a shooter can win, Don't associate with him,spread the word. Its a shallow win,nobody will respect a sandbagger. Most of us break every target we can! Once you get branded a sandbagger,its for life.
     
  17. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Steve, in this sport, with the rules we have in place, you can't. But what does it matter? Shoot the best you can. Play the options or don't. Years ago I thought it was me against the Field. Now its me against the birds. When I best everybody..I have a huge smile. When I don't... I have a huge smile!!

    Wayne
     
  18. warpspeed

    warpspeed Member

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    This is very easy to fix.

    Handicap - once you earn yards, you never lose them. The only way to go down is from the 27 and only 1.5 yds and only after a year of shooting < 90 target average over a 1000 targets.


    Singles - Once you move up, you can't move down. Shoot your average up and it stays there. Next year you have a bad year, tough. You stay up.

    If you win or if you shoot a 98 or better at a State or Regional shoot, you move up a class.

    If you ever shoot a 100 strait as a "D", "C" OR "B", at any level of registered targets, you are instantly promoted to "A" class. Call that "proven ability".

    Doubles - see above but it would be a 96 or better at a State or Regional shoot, you move up a class.
     
  19. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    this would be simple to solve. If you win your class with a score higher than that class average you should be instantly bump to the next class.
    Ex: You win D class @ state, mini grand, grand, regional ect ect you would be in B class no going back. Simple. The rest should lie on the classifaction and known ability. I have run a few 99s but maintain a 94 average.

    @ the ma state shoot I was penalized to A class for lack of targets.I scored a 96/100, 86/100 in singles, what is my known ability? good&notgood, luckyandnot??? If there are people winning often in one class and not going forward in class there is a problem with the system.

    The system that was used in my local motocross club had simular problems and after a while the advanced class was so over crowded they bumped anyone with a average points above XXX into expert. X amount of win place shows got a bump also.
     
  20. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The easiest way is to look on TS.Com after one of the Big shoots when some 20 yarder wins, someone will point them out and explain how and why they don't shoot this good unless its at the Fall Handicap at Linn Creek, the Grand Amercan and a few other premium shoots where there is big money to be won ... This happens every year so why bother trying to figure it out when all you have to do is look on here to find the answer you are seeking ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
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