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How do you move your gun on hard angles ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by bluskyshooter, Feb 24, 2012.

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  1. bluskyshooter

    bluskyshooter Active Member

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    OK - I see a few shooting advice threads .... so figured I would add one of my own. Something I have been wondering for a while now. I seem to have a little difficulty with hard angles (rights more than lefts). I think it has do to with how I track the gun to the bird. Straights and slight angles are no problem ... I keep my eye on the bird and the gun just seems to come up naturally to the correct sight picture ... and boom .. dead bird. (just for reference - my POA is the bead just about touching the bottom of the bird). But a hard angle, the bird races away from my eyesight, I quickly catch up to it with my eye and start my pivot. Here is where I think I go wrong. It seems to me ... that my gun barrel likes to swing on the same exact path ( a slight angle up, incline, what have you) as the bird is taking. Such that, when I pass thru the bird to get in front of it ....the gun barrel is still moving up at that angle .. so that when I shoot ... I could be shooting over the bird. Does that make sense ? How do I adjust. Seems to me I need to find a way to get my barrel out in front of the bird ... without letting it climb to high. If anyone follows my logic ... and understands what I am trying to relate .... would enjoy hearing your thoughts.
    Brian 96 ave 16 yds 1 yr shooting
     
  2. OLD ONE EYE

    OLD ONE EYE Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like you are a one eyed shooter. I say that because two eyed shooter see the bird sooner and it does not get the jump you are experiencing. When a clay gets a jump on you the first thing shooters seem to do is lift their head to see the bird better. Try locking your head down on those hard angles they are not going to get away just feels that way stay in the gun. Also when people say they are having trouble with left or right angles it some times depends on weather you are left or right handed a right hand shooter as angles some time pull the stock away from your face. An all American once told me to keep my right arm up higher as it will force the stock into my face. I am right handed reverse for lefties.
     
  3. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    I'm new to trap, too. Been shooting sporting clays and FITASC for 20 years so I've shot more hard angles, including 90 degree crossers, than semi-straightaways. In fact, easily 70-80% of my misses are near staightaways, seldom angles.
    That said, I think I've experienced what you have...I can wind up over the top of a hard angle. Of my very few misses on hard angles, the majority of those will be high and even occasionally in front. The best cure I've found is a lower hold on stations 1 & 5. Whereas I hold 10-12" above the far edge of the house on 2,3,4, I hold level with the edge and 1 foot or less outside on 1 & 5.

    I know some trapshooters will hold as much as several feet outside the house, presumably to help catch a hard angle. Because of my background I could hold on the opposite corner of the house and still catch a hard angle so I don't need to hold far outside. OTOH, the further I have to move left or right to get on a straightaway, the more trouble I'm in; thus, I set up to favor the straightaways a bit more.

    Bottom line, starting below the line of the crosser allows me to swing flatter, insuring my muzzle won't get above the line, and let me finish on the bottom edge of the target.
     
  4. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    It has been said that for right handed shooters the rh bird requires a bit more lead than the same left hand bird. Personally I think it is a matter of staying in the gun better to the left.
     
  5. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    angles should be taken by turning the trunk, not the arms. a good form of practice is to sit in a chair with your feet flat on the floor and swing the gun from left to right, twisting your upper body while maintaining your head in the gun.
     
  6. X Trap 2

    X Trap 2 TS Member

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    What station are you talking about? Ray
     
  7. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    On the ends I change my foot position so I can make that sharp angle. I also mentally (once I set my feet I swing for a hard left before call for the bird)prepare for that hard left since I shoot lefty. Foot position, so you can twist the trunk of your body as stated above. Mike.
     
  8. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    If you have been shooting a year and your avg. is 96, it is a mind thing. If I had to guess I would say you are shooting behind more than over. Are you still shooting a KS-5?
     
  9. bluskyshooter

    bluskyshooter Active Member

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    Stl Flyn - never had a KS-5. SKB85TSS is what I have been shooting. Thanks for the suggestions guys. I think another way of describing my issues with the hard angle is: for straight-aways, slight and moderate angles I find it easy to get the barrel into the correct VERTICAL "sight picture" ... which for me is getting the front bead just under the bird. But for the hard angles .... I have a hard time getting the VERTICAL position of my sight picture consistently. As I mentioned, when my barrel tracks the upward flight of the bird and I pass thru .. my barrel has a tendency to keep rising up. I need to find a way to get the barrel in front of the bird ... but at the correct VERTICAL height. Guess I need to lock the trap at hard angles ... and do some experimenting.
     
  10. dhip

    dhip Active Member

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    Being new,take what I say with a grain of salt,hoever I noticed you mentioned getting the bead just under the bird.If I were to worry about the bead at that time,it'd be a lost bird automatically for me.I mount my gun at the position above trap house that is correct for that particuliar station.That's the only time in my minds eye the bead is visible.Once I call pull,I look for target and shoot,couldn't tell anyone where bead is.If I think I'm shootin high,next target I'm focusing on lower half or just under bird,hard angles I focus eyes in front of bird if I believe I'm behind.Once pull is called,beads are out of play.

    Doug H.
     
  11. 2500 HD

    2500 HD Active Member

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    Your feet will miss you more targets than your gun.For a right hand shooter, Close your stance on 5 , open stance on 1. Let your body uncoil with the target. If you set up so your body is blocked from twisting you'll miss your share of targets.
     
  12. billyboy07208

    billyboy07208 Member

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    Ditto with the uncoil-ing torso.
     
  13. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    To the OP you could experiment with a little higher POI so that you don't have to swing through the target but can keep it in focus all the time.
     
  14. Martinpicker

    Martinpicker Active Member

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    Listen to 2500 HD!
     
  15. SMOKEIT

    SMOKEIT Well-Known Member

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    Congrats on the 96 average...You would need to tell us if you shoot one eye or two eye and where you hold your gun and eyes to help analyze your problem...you shoot so well I am not sure anyone on this site can help you much. I will say that Kiner says that most right hand shooters miss hard angles by shooting to the left and under bird on both post 1 and 5...Are you certain you are missing by shooting over?...SMOKIT
     
  16. SMOKEIT

    SMOKEIT Well-Known Member

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    Congrats on the 96 average...You would need to tell us if you shoot one eye or two eye and where you hold your gun and eyes to help analyze your problem...you shoot so well I am not sure anyone on this site can help you much. I will say that Kiner says that most right hand shooters miss hard angles by shooting to the left and under bird on both post 1 and 5...Are you certain you are missing by shooting over?...SMOKIT
     
  17. StansCustoms

    StansCustoms Well-Known Member

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    Bluskyshooter..

    I was having the same issue...till I ran across this link. It especially helped me with that hard right angle..Maybe it is something that will help you too. The target is so much easier to acquire for me ...that I have time to deal with the lead and height on the hard right #5 station comfortably and quickly.

    http://www.swsupply.com/downloads/GunHoldsEdited.pdf

    I've been out of the sport 21 years ...so I'm having to relearn everything like I just started, it seems.

    Good Luck...Stan..
     
  18. bluskyshooter

    bluskyshooter Active Member

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    I am a two eyed shooter. On post 5, I am holding about 6" off the right/front edge and maybe 1-2 ft above the front edge of traphouse. I "look" out into the field just above my barrel.

    Stan - I notice all the gun hold pts in those pictures favor the right side .. of what I would call the "classic" , symmetrical positions for each post. I wonder why that is ... and if it is used by the majority of shooters.
     
  19. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    This hard angle "problem" went away for me after I shot couple rounds of skeet.
     
  20. bowsnbulls

    bowsnbulls TS Member

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    If you have shot skeet it is easy to get ahead of the target. The key for me is the follow through. Easier said than done. get ahead and keep swinging the gun.
     
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