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How do you find the sweet spot on your barrel?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by biff, Jun 4, 2008.

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  1. biff

    biff Active Member

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    How is the best way to find the sweet spot on your barrel in order to dampen the vibrations to improve the pattern! Biff
     
  2. RogerNRA

    RogerNRA TS Member

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    Taste it??????????????????????? Roger
     
  3. biff

    biff Active Member

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    Roger, are you trying to be funny? or will that work? Biff
     
  4. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Ya know I mean this in no homosexual way at all but your are just getting anal about things you think will improve your score but really will not.

    BTW ... when you find the spot you will know because it will taste better than all the other spots but be sure to do all tasting after your fire 1 very fast round of skeet.
     
  5. H82MIS

    H82MIS TS Member

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    Now this thread could be fun,,,,,,
     
  6. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Roger ... I have always been told that the sweet spot will taste like a very oily carmely coffee, is that what you understand to be true as well?
     
  7. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Biff, what is wrong with your pattern now?
     
  8. biff

    biff Active Member

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    This is a topic which relates to shotgun barrel performance. Vibrations do occur with shotgun barrels as an ounce or more of loose lead pellets travel down this thinwalled tube of steel. Some target rifles have dampers mounted on them to help control the vibrations to improve accuracy and others have tuners on the end of their barrels for accuracy improvement. Some shotguns have barrels a certain length (33" was the length selected by Dennis DeVault for his MachOne) because the results of the patterns were better due to the harmonics produced at different lengths. Maybe feeling the barrel as it is shot would help determine where the vibrational rate is strongest might be the place to add some dampening material. Sorry if this got Mr. Newbie all excited, no offense intended. Biff
     
  9. biff

    biff Active Member

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    JB, I found a small hole in my pattern where all the targets seem to be going! Biff
     
  10. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Spread those barrels out. Like apart..........
     
  11. gunsmith19

    gunsmith19 TS Member

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    there used to be years ago a man in Florida that balanced shotgun barrels so the vibrations were consistent shot to shot. Another thing is the Cryogenic process. dave
     
  12. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I thought accelerometers would be just the ticket to test recoil but couldn't make it work because guns vibrate like crazy when they are shot. But since O/U's with full ribs shoot about like single barrels (but it's a problem to make that so I'm told) I doubt if vibration can be the cause of many of our misses.

    To ever answer your question, biff, you'd need a gun rest such as Bruce Bowen's. It's a very good
    question which no one has published on and would be a valuable contribution to the sport.

    Neil
     
  13. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    I would suggest that you research the harmonics of the pipes in a pipe organ.
     
  14. biff

    biff Active Member

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    Dave, that man in Florida was Jack Seehasse who used to do a type of harmonic balancing. Many people swore what he did worked, but many others said it was just"Smoke and Mirrors"(The latter group would have loved TS.Com!). I used to own a TM1 that Herb Orre did the choke on and Mr. Seehasse did the harmonic tuning on the barrel, I know the patterns on paper were the most perfectly round, tightest, and most uniform shot pattern of any gun I have ever patterned. It was and still is a great handicap gun, I saw a fellow shooting it at the Music City Shoot and when he centered the target, it virtually disappeared!

    Dave the barrel on my Ljutic has been cryogenically treated as are the guns from DeVault Industries. Not only that they use no hot welds on the barrels, Dennis knows how to make guns! Biff
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    biff, I hate to ask this, but how can a pattern be both the tightest and most uniform? Doesn't "tight" mean non-uniform, that is favoring the center over the edges?

    Neil
     
  16. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    OK, enough silliness. Neil, can the harmonic vibrations setoff by the ignition of the powder charge move through the metal of the barrel at a speed faster than the speed of sound? If not, then the shot charge would probably exit the muzzle ahead of any harmonic vibrations which, in any case, would be damped by the plastic wad surrounding the shot and be evenly distributed around the charge because the barrel is a cylinder.
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Neil- You need to broaden your thinking. My gun shoots a fairly tight pattern that has a uniformly random distribution of shot within a 20 or 30 inch circle.

    Shotgun barrels do vibrate as the shot charge is traveling down the barrel and after it has left the barrel. But, much more importantly, the recoil also causes my head to vibrate. Now, if I could only find the "sweet spot" on my head and attach a lead weight to that spot I might have something.

    Can anyone suggest the proper place for me to stick the lead weight?

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Use two sided tape and place it in the center of your fore head. This will also help you keep your head down on the stock. HMB
     
  19. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    JB, I think you are confusing the idea of "harmonic" vibration with is use in sound but it can occur anywhere unrelated to sound. I guess when people talk about it with guns they really don't mean harmonic at all, but rather the idea that barrels simply vibrate in a sinusoidal wave with one or more nodes.

    biff, you cite the BAR barrel device which was intended to be able to "tune" a barrel for a particular load. Deutsche Waffen Journal did a test of it and got nowhere, but a Wisconsin benchrest shooter claimed it worked, supported primarily by an article in a advertising magazine which was totally worthless. I sometimes go to a local club on sight-in day before deer season to lend a hand and for a while lots of guys had BAR Brownings. I never saw anyone get close to figuring it out though none ever really tried to either and seemed to be doing little other than wearing out the threads, twisting them one way, then another, then back again. Yes, the POI did move, I guess, but whether it was something you could do anything with was never demonstrated to me.

    I talked with Jack Seehase many times, in particular with reference to the yellow handout he distributed at the Grand in the late 80's. It held that the atmosphere had _nothing_ to do with the fact that shot spreads and rather that it was _all_ barrel vibration. He provided a formula to prove it, but would never say what what each of the elements - say the variable "z" - stood for. I never believed a single word of it.

    I did test two TM-1's he did for a couple of vets. The patterns were very tight, just as you say, but that era TM-1's shot very tightly from the factory and I personally doubted anyone could tell the difference, if any. Were the Seehase guns good shooters? Yes indeed; terrific I'd say. Just like the stock one in my safe.

    Neil
     
  20. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Neil, Tuners do work well for 22 rimfire benchrest shooters. You have no control over your velocity of rimfire ammo and thats where the tuner comes into play. On the other hand when shooting centerfire you can control velocity. I have a match Anschutz with a Hohen tuner on it and I did see a slight improvement before and after.
     
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