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¿ How common is 'Reserving Banks' for the favored

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by goatskin, Jul 22, 2010.

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  1. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    On the "Missouri BOD Seeks Your Input" thread, there was mention of blocked banks in presquad.com ... presumably reserving those banks for favored shooters, officer/directors, local big-shots, sponsors ...?

    And it has been reported many times that Pennsylvania does this on banks 2-6, more-or-less openly and regularly.

    And some pigs are more equal than other pigs at the Silver Dollar, shooting East & West.

    How common is this v. an open and transparent drawing for banks?

    Bob
     
  2. Donm

    Donm Active Member

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    Wisconsin blocks bank for shooters with handicaps and chair shooters. Are you sure this isn't the situation there?
     
  3. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Don, that makes sense, and maybe blocking some if there are a bunch of kids (and their support systems).

    Dunno. That's why I asked. There are enough folks who perceive, anyhow, that 'big dogs' local dignitaries, etc. always get the better banks, regardless.

    Bob
     
  4. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

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    At most bigger clubs, directors are allowed to pick their squads, and in some cases the banks also...That is a perk for all the long hours that they volunteer all year long, not just at the big shoots.These people deserve a little something for all their dedication for providing a great venue for us to shoot at.
     
  5. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    I like the "pull the pill" technique like they do at Winchester, VA.


    It probably wouldn't work so well at Elysburg, or Sparta though. It'd probably take on the nature of a demolition derby with everyone scrambling to get where they needed to be in their trucks, SUVs and golf carts....


    Sounds like fun!



    Guy B.
     
  6. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    TWODOGS..... You stated:

    "At most bigger clubs, directors are allowed to pick their squads, and in some cases the banks also...That is a perk for all the long hours that they volunteer all year long, not just at the big shoots.These people deserve a little something for all their dedication for providing a great venue for us to shoot at."

    Please let me know which clubs that may doing this so I can stay away from them! A registered shoot is SUPPOSED to be fair for everyone, not biased towards the directors, big dogs, or anyone else. I wouldn't let your shooters know that this happens on a regular basis as I'm sure there would be some fall out from it. I'm a long time director at my home club and I don't expect any such perk, or favor, nor would I take one if offered. There is more than sufficient griping going on now regarding registered shooting, and this type of behavior just adds fuel to the fire. NO ONE DESERVES TO BE TREATED ANY BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE, NOR OFFERED ANY SPECIAL CONSIDERATION AT A REGISTERED SHOOT, PERIOD!..... Just my opinion.... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
    Quick 1 thanked this.
  7. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

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    Dan...I am also a director at my club, and no we don't get any special treatment as it's only a small club.All of the people that bitch about people getting special treatment probably have never served on a board of directors, working long thankless hours to put on an event.Both you and I know what it's all about.

    I'm not saying it's right that these people except these perks, but it happens.....
     
  8. porky

    porky TS Member

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    NYSATA saves the best banks for their favorites and for the pro's that they pay all the entry fees for. I guess that they think that they are doing the Amature shooters a favor by paying the pro's to take all the money. Don't let them BS you about any lottery for banks. They know and the favorites get all the good fields.
     
  9. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    twodogs...... You are so right, and I agree with your last post 100%. It's such a shame that this type of thing STILL goes on, even though those that are doing it know it's wrong and completely out of line with how registered shooting is designed to work.... Dan
     
  10. JTEA

    JTEA Member

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    I learned this lesson the first year I shot registered, and it taught me that this game is not to be taken too seriously. I went to shoot at a neighboring state shoot which ran 12 traps as three banks. A friend (AA / 26yd at the time - became State Champ a few times) and I were second in line, there was NO pre-squadding in those days. We wanted to shoot on Bank 2 as it seemed to have the best targets, background etc. The entire shoot was filled on that bank save the fact that they let us sign up at the very end. (They would not allow that now until the other banks were filled) We watched during the day and, low and behold, who shot those banks? All the insiders, not just the officials and helpers at the club, but the good old boys. Why did it matter? They had the best pullers as well! I broke a 97 from the 23 yd line and he followed on the next (last squad with only 3 shooters) and broke a 99. He took State Champ and I was second high and won the purse as he didn't play it. They didn't even have an open champ trophy, just yardage as they were tired of people from out of state winning.

    I (and many others I know) have pre-squadded at the PA State Shoot only to find that it was pointless. With the new system you are stuck if you pre-squad, get there to turn it in and then must wait until they decide to process you return so you may squad again. You are now much better off going in line to get a decent spot, and then leaving and returning to line while the shoot is running if nothing decent is open.

    I spoke with a local shooter who is A to AA in our local shoots and asked him how he did at the PA this year. He replied, I haven't been up there in the past 10 years. He does show up at numerous non-registered shoots and has plenty of money to spend, if he so chooses.

    I have thought, for several years, that the time has come for an online lottery for the pre-squadding. It could be held live at the PSSA building (or other club) and broadcast via the internet. It would use the ATA numbers as they are drawn and shooting posts would then (later) be filled in that order. Groups of five could have five duplicate entries so it would be one shooter per draw. This would also encourage whole squads to pre-squad together as this would increase their chances.

    For those unfamiliar, at Elysburg there are two trap lines perpendicular to each other. The upper line of 8 banks basically runs East and West and the lower (in the gully) 4 run North / South (twist the whole thing 20 degrees CCW). It matters since the sun, wind and background are factors. Unfortunately banks 5 and 6 look right out to a distant jumble background with the lower fields, buildings and 100+ trailers. The top shooters will be on Banks 2,3 and 4. #1 sometimes has funny winds and 7 & 8 are more exposed to wind. 9 > 12 can be best at times when the wind shifts. That's an occasional uncertainty, and you have people who prefer them.

    In the past the first 100 was shot on the chosen banks, then the entire field was shifted by four banks for the second 100. Bank 2 then shot on bank 6. This made it much more fair as you would usually have at least one decent bank. Since they are shooting 50 /trap they would have to shift 8 banks now.


    Add some data to all those charts on the declining sport of trapshooting. It's increasingly becoming a sport for those that have and those who don't; who shoot local non-registered shoots. Sparta is a case in point, being that it's set up more for trailers and motor-homes than travelers.


    JT
     
  11. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Git: <i> ... and for the pro's that they pay all the entry fees for.</i>

    HUH ???

    Does that really happen? Have I been hiding under a rainbow rock?


    Bob
     
  12. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

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    Bob.......didn't you know that reg. trapshooting is just like pro golf?
    They pay the pro trapshooters an appearance fee, plus all their expenses.


    That is just such pure ...BULL...
     
  13. Big Heap

    Big Heap TS Member

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    At Vandalia sometimes the hot shots were placed where they could put on a show for the rabble. Very entertaining to see how fast some of those guys could smoke doubles targets.
     
  14. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    IMHO-- you should have to shoot the same squad number all the way through AND banks should either be rotated or drawn randomly each day. The draw should be such that if you had a 4 day shoot with 1000 targets (=10 100's) and 5 banks you would end up shooting all 5 banks twice or if you had 10 banks you would shoot each one once.

    Obviously the number of banks and events will not always match but it should still be drawn so that you come as close to random as possible.

    Also the ATA should OUTLAW shooting of 100 per trap at anything other than marathons. They know that shooting 4 in a row is not really any slower and there is a limit to what the ATA should "dictate" but fairness is one thing that should be paramount.

    Skipping traps and shooting the whole line is the fairest but probably not possible at many places. At Vandalia (when they had 64 traps) they used to have 4 banks of 16 traps each and you shot that whole line of 16. So you went either west-west, west-east, east-east or east west. If they would do that at many places and make the direction part of the draw truly random it would make the game faire better for everyone. Problem is it is not better for some.
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    At most of the large shoots I attend the random bank draw system is used. You squad but have no idea what bank you are shooting on until the event is ready to start. After starting, shooters are supposed to fill the next available squad without preference for banks.

    Bob- This system is used at Silver Dollar for the Southern and Dixie Grands. The "big dogs" shoot on both sides.

    Pat Ireland
     
  16. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    It use to be common in Reno and Las Vegas. Pissed me off and I quit attending those shoots.
     
  17. snowbird

    snowbird TS Member

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    I just shot NY. State and they draw for banks (at least they do now).

    Terry.
     
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