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How close is too close?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by short shucker, Jul 13, 2010.

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  1. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    I've been looking at some of the results from the various state shoots. I can't believe how close some of these shooters are to the 16yrd line and are shooting 'caps.

    I've always felt that the ATA should abolish any distance shorter than the 22. It needs to be as different as doubles is from singles in order for it to be a different discipline. As it is right now, it's just singles from a couple of yards further back for some of the shooters.

    ss
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Shoot handicap from the 16 yard line. Only thing is you have to use a 410. HMB
     
  3. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    short shucker

    "I've always felt that the ATA should abolish any distance shorter than the 22. It needs to be as different as doubles is from singles in order for it to be a different discipline. As it is right now, it's just singles from a couple of yards further back for some of the shooters."

    So does this mean that miraculously some where between 18 and 22yds it become something other than singles from a couple of yards further back. Isn't that what it is all the way back. The distance only handicaps the human mind and obviously some much less than others.

    Bob Lawless
     
  4. TMX BOB

    TMX BOB Member

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    It's the same complaint I hear from the guys on the 27 yard. Too many guys on the 27 yard don't belong back there. Is you concern about sand bagging?

    Bob Collins
     
  5. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    I got to agree with ivanhoe on this one. While I prefer shooting the 20 instead of the 16 for singles, it strikes fear in most of the shooters at one little club I shoot at. They start to think about different chokes and shells and their game goes to hell just moving back 4 yards. It's kinda funny. Wayne
     
  6. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    20 yards is nothing but "Long Singles" !

    :)
     
  7. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    If you have a 16 yard average of 80 and a handicap avg of 75. how close is to close?
     
  8. rennerize

    rennerize Active Member

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    What smsyder said.
    Don
     
  9. eric

    eric TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    There doesn't seem to be many 20 yard Handicap shooters winning events - mostly the long yardage guys.

    Eric
     
  10. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I can piss away targets on any yard line. I could probably miss one or more out of 25 standing on the trap house.

    HM
     
  11. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Eric, your going to have to back that one up with some data!!!
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    smsnyder- With a 16 yard average of 80 and a handicap average of 75, I think the 14 yard line would be an ideal handicap.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    In the 2008 target year, of all ATA shooters who shot at least 1000 handicap targets:

    87.1% of 21 yard shooters averaged below 90% in handicap;

    95.9% of 20 yard shooters averaged below 90% in handicap;

    99.1% of 19 yard shooters averaged below 90% in handicap;

    100.0% of 18 yard shooters averaged below 90% in handicap.

    Given that an average below 90% on 1000 targets will bring a reduction offer to most shooters, how can you argue that the minimum should be 22 yards?
     
  14. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    Looking at Pocatello's post, the minimum yardage should be the 16 yard line. Wasn't it that way way back when it first started? I thought that the whole idea was that every one would be competing against each other, with the better shooters handicapped so the not so good shooters would have a chance?

    I think that it should be made harder for the sandbaggers/target managers to get reductions is the way to go. Maybe no reductions unless one does bad in All American Points tournaments and/or a 2 year freeze for money punches.

    Jason
     
  15. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    If I can smell what you had for breakfast, you're too close. And it doesn't matter from which side.
     
  16. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    waverider

    "Looking at Pocatello's post, the minimum yardage should be the 16 yard line. Wasn't it that way way back when it first started? I thought that the whole idea was that every one would be competing against each other, with the better shooters handicapped so the not so good shooters would have a chance?"

    You said in the last sentence of that quote after the comma just the opposite of what what you said in the first sentence of you post.

    "Looking at Pocatello's post, the minimum yardage should be the 16 yard line."

    And you are correct the better shooters are supposed to be handicap farther from the trap as the get better.

    "The ATA Handicap system is the method whereby shooters whose ability to win
    or compete at a level of accomplishment has been demonstrated and shooters
    whose ability is unknown are handicapped by shooting a greater distance from
    the trap house."

    I can find nothing that say that shooters who can not compete should be moved closer to the trap house.

    Bob Lawless
     
  17. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    Bob,

    My apology for a confusing post. It is clear in my confused mind. ;)

    My point is if you look at the handicap average of the All Americans and compare those averages to the scores of the lower class 16 yard Single scores, many barely can compete from the 16 yard line.

    The process of granting yardage reduction allows those that cannot compete at longer yardage to move closer to the trap house.

    Jason
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    waverider I am aware of what your point is but moving shooters forward will never cure the problem. It can only cause more of the same.

    Those more gifted shooter who stay in only one place and their averages go up even farther every year are the one that need to move rearward in the normal progression of the handicap.

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    Bob,

    I think that we are looking at 2 different "problems" with the Handicap event.

    The one that am addressing is trying to level the playing field.

    I do realize that the other "problem" is that there are shooters that manage their scores to not get punched back.

    Jason
     
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