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How can you be an amateur ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by amboy49, Jun 17, 2011.

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  1. amboy49

    amboy49 Well-Known Member

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    Just to open a new can of worms - how can the ATA (amateur) be just that ? When you have an added money purse of over $300,000 at the Grand and also include the purses for all the other shooting events - how can the winner be considered an amateur ?

    I'm not against the money - just can't reconcile shooting for ( and winning )money and by definition not be called a professional ?
     
  2. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    For most of us it will be a "gamble". We cannot win the top spot but we may be lucky enough to "hit the Lewis".

    It is better than the cars, gold coins, etc that used to be awarded to the top shooters. This gives the "normal Joe" a chance at winning.

    Yes, it encourages gambling, but it will also boost participation.

    Don Verna
     
  3. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    "I'm not against the money - just can't reconcile shooting for ( and winning )money and by definition not be called a professional ?"

    Then call yourself a professional. Nobody is stopping you. Either that, or don't participate in the money. Nobody is forcing you to do that either.

    Me? I don't get paid to shoot. Shooting is not my job. Therefore I am not a professional shooter.

    There is money involved in fun shoots too. Are you going to advocate for a Professional Annie Shooters Association?
     
  4. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Because there is no "Professional Trapshooters Association".

    ss
     
  5. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

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    I believe it is a name that was created and never changed. By the definition of being professional it would seem if you shot trap for a living not just to make a little money here and there.

    Bryan
     
  6. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    because the intent is to encourage new shooters into the sport,yes it is misleading, most aren't aware for awhile,at least, that there are people in the sport who are paid, or get some form of compensation to shoot or promote a product. For most the money spent will always be more than money won.
     
  7. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    The "American Trapshooting Association" sounds better doesn't it?? I think so--Dennis.
     
  8. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    It's the monthly "we are not amateurs" thread. Soon we will be hearing supposed first hand knowledge of all the guns, ammo and perks that Leo and the rest of the "Big Dog Pros" get. Wonder how long it will take?
     
  9. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Do professional trapshooters qualify for food stamps? HMB
     
  10. huntinandhotrods

    huntinandhotrods Member

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    Hey V10

    That Professional Annie Shooters Association sounds like a great job. I going to quit my day job. Where do I sign up? LOL!

    Huntinandhotrods
     
  11. shotgunpeople

    shotgunpeople Active Member

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    Dennis:

    Our organization was the American Trapshooting Association at one time...

    The American Trapshooting Association (ATA, 1919-1923) was formed and replaced the Interstate Trapshooting Association. The offices were moved to New York from Pittsburgh. It was this association that designed the ATA logo much as it appears today.

    1923 we became the Amateur Trapshooting Association...

    Just a little history for today...

    Dave in SC
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "When you have an added money purse of over $300,000 at the Grand and also include the purses for all the other shooting events - how can the winner be considered an amateur ?"

    So tell us when the man next door goes out once a week to play poker with his friends. Is he a professional poker player/gambler???

    When you or someone you know goes to the local Casino. Puts their money in the one arm bandits and wins million or only a little are they now professional gamblers???

    When your wife or sister or sister in law go to bingo and win money does that make them professional gamblers???

    If you get a no answer in your own mind when you think about these questions. Why would you feel for one moment that winning money at a trap shoot would make you a professional????

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. snapthecat

    snapthecat TS Member

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    If we are advocating a name change, how about renaming it closer to what it really is. GOBSA. Good old boys sandbagging association.
     
  14. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Its really starting to take form now.
     
  15. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    How about: "IOBOA"

    After looking up and down the line at many shoots, it's obvious that many participants fit into this association.

    Curt
     
  16. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Hookers and call girls are supposed to be pros but village butterfly's get a pass on the definition, so do ATA shooters.

    In 1923 we did declare the ATA was for the average joes and the professional shooters for arms and ammo companies became Industry Representatives at some point. That designation IRs was abolished during the 70s and probably shouldn't have in my not so humble opinion. Many things changed during that time frame without following standard practices in trapshooting that made the game what is was up to that era. Our Armatures today are now better than any Professional ever, record wise?

    Hap
     
  17. amboy49

    amboy49 Well-Known Member

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    Just to throw some gas on the fire -

    Bob,

    As a polite rebuttal . . . . . when there are a given group of shooters that make a living at trap shooting ( albeit a very very small group ) by not only shooting well, but also selling instructional tapes, putting on clinics, and receiving money for endorsements it would seem to me they would be considered a "professional."

    Not against it nor posting a response from the sour grapes category re: shooting against someone with more talent than others. I was just trying to think of another sport that was structured the same way. If you're a golfer and the first time you win money in a PGA tournament your a "pro." But if you're playing in the local scramble for a fundraiser for the Boys and Girls Club and win $100 credit at the club pro shop you're not.

    If you are a bowler and you win money in a PB sanctioned event you're a pro - if you're bowling in a Thursday night men's league and you win a money prize you're not.

    If you're a gambler and win $1MM in the slots you're not playing against someone else - you're playing against the house.

    There will always be the best of the best in any sport. Was just wondering why, with $300K added money at the Grand that doesn't make it a "professional's sport."

    Back in the 60's I know my Dad won enough in Vandalia one year to make it a concern tax wise. An accountant told him to calculate all the entry fees, travel, shells, etc throughout the year and then deduct that from the winnings. ( I'm pretty sure it was a negative number when the expenses were compared to the purse winnings ! ! )
     
  18. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    The Industry Rep category existed at least into the 1990's. It was ended for good reason, as it was just an added expense (trophies) for a very small handful of shooters that won many, many trophies at the Grand but were not (generally speaking) the big dogs you are all so concerned about.

    If there was a viable professional trapshooting association, then I would side with you guys; but there isn't, and never will be one. For that reason, the sport should not be kicking it's best out. I don't care how much they make from shooting, they are just plain good, and I enjoy having a chance to shoot against them.
     
  19. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

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    Being an amateur depends on the current definition of the word. At one tiome Jim Thorpe had his Olympic medal confiscated because he took a tiny bit of "compensation" when playing baseball. Now, NBA palyers compete in the Olympics.

    The name of the ATA was changer TO "Amateur Thapshooting Association". For accuracy sake, it should have remained or be changed back to "American Trapshooting Association".

    Also, the reasonn that there is no "Professional Trapshooting Association" is that there is no source for the money necessary to pay the competitors. Right now they are paid from the fees all shooter pay when they "play the money". If the top shooters (pros) had to rely on winning money from only the other top shooters that wouldn't last for a single shoot.
     
  20. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    How does the amount of trophies offered today compare to the days when IRs were competing against each other for the trophy? Hell, today you almost get a trophy for showing up! There a lot more trophy costs today as a comparison! AAA and all the category classes?

    Hap
     
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