Just to open a new can of worms - how can the ATA (amateur) be just that ? When you have an added money purse of over $300,000 at the Grand and also include the purses for all the other shooting events - how can the winner be considered an amateur ?
I'm not against the money - just can't reconcile shooting for ( and winning )money and by definition not be called a professional ?
I believe it is a name that was created and never changed. By the definition of being professional it would seem if you shot trap for a living not just to make a little money here and there.
because the intent is to encourage new shooters into the sport,yes it is misleading, most aren't aware for awhile,at least, that there are people in the sport who are paid, or get some form of compensation to shoot or promote a product. For most the money spent will always be more than money won.
It's the monthly "we are not amateurs" thread. Soon we will be hearing supposed first hand knowledge of all the guns, ammo and perks that Leo and the rest of the "Big Dog Pros" get. Wonder how long it will take?
Our organization was the American Trapshooting Association at one time...
The American Trapshooting Association (ATA, 1919-1923) was formed and replaced the Interstate Trapshooting Association. The offices were moved to New York from Pittsburgh. It was this association that designed the ATA logo much as it appears today.
1923 we became the Amateur Trapshooting Association...
"When you have an added money purse of over $300,000 at the Grand and also include the purses for all the other shooting events - how can the winner be considered an amateur ?"
So tell us when the man next door goes out once a week to play poker with his friends. Is he a professional poker player/gambler???
When you or someone you know goes to the local Casino. Puts their money in the one arm bandits and wins million or only a little are they now professional gamblers???
When your wife or sister or sister in law go to bingo and win money does that make them professional gamblers???
If you get a no answer in your own mind when you think about these questions. Why would you feel for one moment that winning money at a trap shoot would make you a professional????
Hookers and call girls are supposed to be pros but village butterfly's get a pass on the definition, so do ATA shooters.
In 1923 we did declare the ATA was for the average joes and the professional shooters for arms and ammo companies became Industry Representatives at some point. That designation IRs was abolished during the 70s and probably shouldn't have in my not so humble opinion. Many things changed during that time frame without following standard practices in trapshooting that made the game what is was up to that era. Our Armatures today are now better than any Professional ever, record wise?
As a polite rebuttal . . . . . when there are a given group of shooters that make a living at trap shooting ( albeit a very very small group ) by not only shooting well, but also selling instructional tapes, putting on clinics, and receiving money for endorsements it would seem to me they would be considered a "professional."
Not against it nor posting a response from the sour grapes category re: shooting against someone with more talent than others. I was just trying to think of another sport that was structured the same way. If you're a golfer and the first time you win money in a PGA tournament your a "pro." But if you're playing in the local scramble for a fundraiser for the Boys and Girls Club and win $100 credit at the club pro shop you're not.
If you are a bowler and you win money in a PB sanctioned event you're a pro - if you're bowling in a Thursday night men's league and you win a money prize you're not.
If you're a gambler and win $1MM in the slots you're not playing against someone else - you're playing against the house.
There will always be the best of the best in any sport. Was just wondering why, with $300K added money at the Grand that doesn't make it a "professional's sport."
Back in the 60's I know my Dad won enough in Vandalia one year to make it a concern tax wise. An accountant told him to calculate all the entry fees, travel, shells, etc throughout the year and then deduct that from the winnings. ( I'm pretty sure it was a negative number when the expenses were compared to the purse winnings ! ! )
The Industry Rep category existed at least into the 1990's. It was ended for good reason, as it was just an added expense (trophies) for a very small handful of shooters that won many, many trophies at the Grand but were not (generally speaking) the big dogs you are all so concerned about.
If there was a viable professional trapshooting association, then I would side with you guys; but there isn't, and never will be one. For that reason, the sport should not be kicking it's best out. I don't care how much they make from shooting, they are just plain good, and I enjoy having a chance to shoot against them.
Being an amateur depends on the current definition of the word. At one tiome Jim Thorpe had his Olympic medal confiscated because he took a tiny bit of "compensation" when playing baseball. Now, NBA palyers compete in the Olympics.
The name of the ATA was changer TO "Amateur Thapshooting Association". For accuracy sake, it should have remained or be changed back to "American Trapshooting Association".
Also, the reasonn that there is no "Professional Trapshooting Association" is that there is no source for the money necessary to pay the competitors. Right now they are paid from the fees all shooter pay when they "play the money". If the top shooters (pros) had to rely on winning money from only the other top shooters that wouldn't last for a single shoot.
How does the amount of trophies offered today compare to the days when IRs were competing against each other for the trophy? Hell, today you almost get a trophy for showing up! There a lot more trophy costs today as a comparison! AAA and all the category classes?
You're missing the point. ATA's IR Category (as it existed in recent times at least) didn't include many of the shooters you are worried about at all. Leo was not in there, nor most of the others. It simply served no purpose.
The IRS considers you a Pro if you win money at the Casino's beyond a certain amount, even if you are playing BINGO ... They casino's issue 1099's just like a contract employer would, if you don't give them your SS number they hold the pay off until you do ... I know that to be a fact because we (my wife and I) have fallen victim to it more than once ...
The majority of pro's in the midst will never own up to it and the ATA looks the other way, thats why it happens ... Some of them have made a slip of the tongue and admitted they were Professional Trapshooters and Teachers in the course of an interview, without recourse ... This is old news but nothing to dwell on anymore, just accept it for what it is and do not play the money ...
WPT ... (YAC) ...
It is called the "Amateur Trapshooting Association" because amateurs subsidize and then shoot against and mostly lose to professionals for the money. It will only be a professional organization when all the amateurs see the light.
Ok Iam coming out of the closet. Iam a professional! My ability doesn't reflect it, the IRS doesn't recognize it but after the grand, all will know!
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