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"Honorary" 27 yard punches ??

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Neil Winston, Aug 15, 2007.

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  1. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    ...until tomorrow night, tomk2, if I get my way . . .

    Neil
     
  2. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Neil, just what are you proposing tomorrow night, if it's not too secret?
     
  3. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Jack! Back off a second, will you?

    I'm not talking about mandatory reductions, We're talking "H-code, the two (2) year thing. Mandatory reductions will not happen if I can help it.

    tsh, here's what I'm after. It's pretty secret, but since you are a friend, I'll let you in on it but keep it under your hat, OK?



    ATA Delegate:

    At the 2002 Board of Directors meeting the Delegates changed the definition of the existing “H-code.” The previous version was:

    “5. Yardage earned for high scores and ties in any Grand American handicap event in the regular program (does not include preliminary events) may not be removed in part or whole by any Committee action to the end of the Grand American World Trapshooting Championships in the following year.”

    There was, at that time, a general feeling among Delegates and shooters alike that there were way too many shooters who would post a high score at a major shoot and take the prescribed yardage but then go home, “shoot the yardage off” to get a couple of reductions, and return to the same (or similar) shoot the following year on exactly the same yard-line. In order to prevent that, automatically and without Delegate action, the rule was changed to read:

    “5. Earned yardage of 1.5 or more yards for any single event may not be removed in part or whole by any Committee action or 1,000 target review for a minimum period of two (two) years from the date the yardage was earned.”

    We now have a five-year history to reflect on and decide if we want to continue with the present policy or, based on experience, introduce some flexibility into it.

    The justice of the present rule is based on the following two (unstated) propositions:

    A: “Every shooter who earns a yard-and-a-half punch has proven his or her ability to be competitive from a yard or two beyond that from which the yardage was earned for the next two years.”

    And

    B: “The ratio of shooters this rule is intended to affect will be very high in comparison to those who just had a good day, have no intention of shooting their yardage off to gain an advantage, and, though perhaps locked too far back, just represent an acceptable level of “collateral damage.”

    Included with this letter is a list of current H-coded shooters from your state. In that list you will probably see:

    1. Skilled handicap shooters who routinely gain enough yardage (usually from the 27) to keep them where they are anyway and so are unaffected by the rule.

    2. (Maybe) some examples of the sort of competitor the rule was meant to affect and should stay right where they are.

    3. (Maybe, again) Some members who fall under “B” above. They are just recreational shooters hoping to score well today, are not suspected of “working the system,” but nevertheless, based on their current averages, being held too far back.

    4. Also in the list are shooters who requested yardage increases and, having a two-year ban on reductions similar to the yardage-based one, have been also included in the H-code category. They are pretty easy to spot, however.

    As you scan the list from your state I anticipate you will see that there are people on the list, for lack of a better term, “by mistake,” that is, swept up in the a net intended for someone else. Isn’t there something we can do to let them drift forward through the normal reduction process until they reach a yardage from which they will have a better chance? Don’t we, as administrators of the sport and responsible for its “fairness,” owe that to them?

    We could vote ourselves some discretion by changing the rule to read:

    “5. Earned yardage of 1.5 or more yards for any single event will not be removed in part or whole by 1,000 target review for a minimum period of two (two) years from the date the yardage was earned. This restriction on reductions may be removed for a shooter by the State Delegate sending a request to his or her zone Central Handicap Committee member who will make the final decision.”

    Advances in technology have made it possible to accurately police this rule. The ATA website now has available, through the “printer friendly” link, the complete record of every shooter for years and years, just like the “Detail Record” we can get from the ATA office. It’s easy enough to study the history of a shooter and decide of the H-code should stay or be removed. You may want to continue many of your H-codes, cancel some, or do nothing. It’ll be up to you. (Naturally, codes based on voluntary moves to a longer yardage will not be touched,)

    The ATA will send you a quarterly report of the current H-codes for your state to alert you to who is breaking top scores. With this knowledge you will be able to continue the H-code where you think it’s appropriate or cancel it where it in cases where, in your judgment, it is not called-for, or maybe just no longer needed.

    I ask you to favorably consider this proposed rule change.

    Neil Winston
    Minnesota Delegate and Central Zone Vice-president
     
  4. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Neil is right. The "No Reduction" rule for gaining big chunks of yardage at a big shoot doesn't make sense. Of course, gaining more yardage at a big shoot for, say a 97, as opposed to a smaller shoot doesn't make any sense either. You hit 97 targets out of a hundred regardless of how many people were standing around. And, of course getting a punch for beating 14 people and not getting a punch for beating 13 people is a pretty subjective situation as well.

    What solves all of these is to tie punches to the demonstration that a shooter has become competitive and proficient at his current yardage and, consequently, should be given the chance to test and prove his skills at a longer yardage. This would be done by adding an average calculation. If a shooter can establish a 90 average using 800 of his last 1000 targets, then move him back a yard and see if he can do that from there.

    The current system of half yard punches,(why not quarter yard punches?), punches for winning small shoots,(a 75 might to it on a bad day with 14 other shooters, yet no punch for a winning 95 with 13 other shooters), punches for placing second at large shoots, bigger punches for the same scores at large shoots vs smaller shoots, etc. is just plain silly.
     
  5. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    A way of remembering your successes...
     
  6. starshot2b

    starshot2b TS Member

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    Thanks Tom, Jerry & Whiz...the rest of the comments went wayyyyyy over my head! LOL
     
  7. bas

    bas Member

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    It's my understanding the rule was modified slightly - you still are "H" coded for two years, but after one year, you can request a "special" review. I am the perfect example of having a "good" day...and am anxiously awaiting my reduction. My two years was up (sounds like a prison sentence) in July and it seems that in order to get a reduction, 1000 handicap targets have to shot after the "sentence" was up.

    Neil...if you are reading this, I hope you (ATA) will put out a list of the rule changes that took place in the very near future.
     
  8. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    trophies

    neil, by the way those additional metals/trophies for 16 yard events and handicap events was a great idea. giving trophies/metals to 1st -3rd place in each and every yardage will only draw more shooters. the only problem i found is not many shooters knew about these trophies. nice job
     
  9. angryman7

    angryman7 TS Member

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    draw more shooters? what an ass
     
  10. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    How much time and money would it save clubs and ATA to stop Honorary punches.
    Why cant that just be the top ranking. Unless I'm missing something. Is there differant classes? say a 27h1 27h2 ect ect. 27is the top, now you gotta shoot to win period. the top ten players have been on top in golf for a while now with tiger having a lot of wins, is it time for a new pro golf league. Why not just say for major shoots grands/regional/states if you win you must register in that class or higher at next grand/regional/states?
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    tom2k, my motion passed unanimously. It's the rule now.

    . . .so anyone locked too far back, you tell your Delegate now, you hear?

    Neil
     
  12. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Neil - My personal thanks. I have always thought that rule was inappropriate, and I personally have been a victim of it. - Jim
     
  13. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Neil, great idea. I am a victim, also.
     
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