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Holding Opening Lever While Closing the Gun???

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Easystreet, Aug 29, 2008.

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  1. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    A few weeks ago, I posted on here how hard my fairly new Browning 525 is to open. I've now put perhaps 800 to 1,000 rounds through it and have opened and closed the action at least 2,000 times and it is STILL extremely hard to get the opening lever started to the right. Once the opening lever starts to move to the right, then it's not too bad, but sometimes it feels like it is welded shut until I exert a very large amount of force with my thumb to get it moving.

    So, today while opening and closing the action at home, I decided to hold the opening lever to the right as I closed the action. Once the action is closed, I release the lever and it moves to the left to the closed position. However, it does not move as far to the left (toward the center) as it would if I did not hold it while closing the gun.

    By holding the lever while I close the gun, it makes it MUCH easier to open the gun after dryfiring it. My question is, "Is it safe to do this while shooting? Does the bolt go far enough into the lug recess to securely lock the gun closed while firing?" Thanks.

    Easystreet
     
  2. dedpair

    dedpair Active Member

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    I've been doing that for years. My thinking is it causes less wear on the bolt, especially on a Browning were it has direct contact with the barrels. I recently sold a 97' Special Trap with over 170,000 rounds through it, and the lock up was still tight. It has no negative effect that I can see and gives me something extra to do betwwen shots. I just manually push the top lever to the left a bit after it's closed to assure it isn't riding over the trigger. If you take it apart to clean you'll see that if the top lever isn't over all the way it could possibly interfere with your trigger. Hope this helps!

    Jeff Graupp
     
  3. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    "Did you lubricate the locking bolt & under lug? Sound like binding to me."


    Yes, I've lubricated it with everything imaginable and it does not help. I've cleaned and lubricated the innards (triggerworks, hammers, springs, sears, opening lever spring, ect) numerous times and it does no good.

    I've owned (and still own) other Browning Citoris and none of them were like this when new. I've had other Citori owners open my gun and none of them said that their gun was this hard to open even when brand new. I'm just aggravated with THIS gun and want to know what the hell is wrong with it. Thanks for responding.

    Easystreet
     
  4. huskers

    huskers TS Member

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    I'm not a informed helpful person. But, If it was manufactored at a different plant then your others I wonder if the tolerences are a little different. I noticed that when working on gattling guns in the Air Force. Different back shop personnel would have different slack tolerences. Of course I'm refering to mass produced parts. If your Browning is hand made all I just did was blow hot Air. Jason W.
     
  5. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    The gun will not fire if the lug is not engaged enough.

    Close it any way you want. Snapping the gun shut will let the lever get more impetus from the spring, and thus it pushes the lug microscopically more into the notch.

    HM
     
  6. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    Jason,

    I guess the tolerances on something in the gun are different. As for where it was manufactured, Miroku manufactures all the Citoris in Japan. I have no clue which Miroku shop it was manufactured in. It doesn't say on the gun....... at least not in English. :)

    Easystreet
     
  7. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    Halfmile,

    Thanks. I was not aware of that, but it does make sense.

    BTW, I can see a visible difference in the position of the opening lever when I hold the lever while closing the gun as opposed to closing the gun normally. I think the difference in lug engagement is a bit more than "microscopically". But knowing that it won't fire if the bolt (lug) is not sufficiently engaged is reassuring. Thanks again.

    Easystreet
     
  8. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Show what you're doing to a good Browning mechanic. If he says it's getting enough bite on the locking lug closing it softly then you're OK.
     
  9. country gentleman

    country gentleman Member

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    It will break-in after a bit more shooting. Easy-closing using thumb on lock lever wont hurt anything as long as the breech is shut solidly. Common for new browning to stick a little till its broken in. Todd
     
  10. claybuster38

    claybuster38 Member

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    I know exactly what you are talking about. I have a broadway that has that initial bind and I have shot it for years. oiling and cleaning dont help. I have concluded that the locking block angle is just slightly off of what it should be I am sure a smith could prussion blue the block to check the interference angle . then polish it out. I guess when you cant stand it any more youwill do something about it. I am sure if you send it to browning service center it would be fixed free. Marv White
     
  11. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    In my experience of fitting or re-fitting several hundred locking bolts over the years, the sticky "top lever syndrome", is highly the case of a locking bolt fit to the bbl lugs....too perfectly.

    The two angles, the bolt and the bbl's lugs, are not all that great. Seven degrees begins a locking taper. I've seen the angles on Brownings run from 7 to 9-1/2 degrees. Trying to measure this angle with a protractor is impossible. I use an opitical comparator. This tool shows me a silhouette of an object 10x or more in size. I can measure to within minutes of an angle.

    Of course, there are a few other things that do come into play, most importantly, is how well the bbl rests against the receiver's breech face. If the contact is suspicious, a "springy-ness" can occur, causing a more profound "pinch" on the locking bolt.

    Doug Braker
     
  12. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Here is what Perazzi recommends (forcefully, I may add). When the gun is new, or when you have had the locking block replaced, lift the barrels until the action closes and locks without touching the top lever. Once the top lever begins to move toward the center the very slightest amount, change closing methods. Begin by holding the lever to the right, lift the barrels to close the action, then move your thumb to the left (the top lever will follow) to allow the action to lock.

    The initial "break in" is to assure the lugs and block are seating properly. Once they are, the action is properly locked and slowly releasing the top lever reduces wear.
     
  13. LMac

    LMac TS Member

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    I had the same question when I bought my BT-100. It was doing the same thing. My manual says do not hold lever over while closing. I had seen other guys hold the lever over at the club but decided to do what the manual says.
     
  14. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    I shot some sporting clays with the gun this morning. I tried to remember to hold the top lever to the right as I closed the action. When I remembered to do this, the gun worked fine and was easy to open after the two rounds were fired.

    When I failed to remember to hold the opening lever and closed the gun normally, the gun still worked fine but it was hard to open. BTW, I do NOT slam my gun shut the way I've seen some people do. I use only enough force to close the action and get the top lever to return to the closed position.

    In the future, I guess I'll try to remember to hold the top lever while closing the action. It sure makes the gun a lot easier to open.
     
  15. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    Here is another question for you on the same subject. Since the gun is MUCH easier to open when the locking bolt doesn't go as far into the lug recess, what if I just glued or epoxyed a small piece of metal in the rear of the lug recess to stop the bolt from going all the way in?

    That way, I could just close the gun normally without holding the opening lever, and it would be just as easy to open as if I had held the opening lever without the small piece of metal in place.

    Seems to me like it should work. What do you think?

    Easystreet
     
  16. bigclown

    bigclown TS Member

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    Just had my XT serviced by Browning at the Grand. I never slam the action shut nor do I hold the lever to the right as I close the action...just a "normal" but not forceful closure. Since servicing, the action lever seems somewhat harder to open the the action. Comments above are excellent. Will try the "hold the lever" approach. Best Regards, Ed
     
  17. SR1

    SR1 TS Member

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    DO NOT GLUE OR EPOXY ANYTHING on your gun's locking system!!!!!!!!GunDr is right about the angle's,it sound's like they are close to a locking taper which would make it tougher to open then normal take it to a good gun smith and have it fixed.
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Controversy on what to do with the lever when closing the gun has been around for nearly 100 years. Some expert gunsmiths and some manufacturers definitively state that the lever should never be closed with a thumb. Just close the gun normally and let the lever move without resistance. But, other expert gunsmiths and some manufacturers recommend that the gun be closed and the lever eased into place with the thumb.

    I have never known of an expert gunsmith or manufacturer recommend the Ireland way to close a gun, but I still use this method. I close the gun with my thumb positioned just a little to the right of the final closed lever position. My thumb acts as a cushion allowing the lugs to lock but not allowing them to slam shut. This is really quite simple to do. After three practice gun closings, your thumb position becomes very simple to determine.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. SMITH47

    SMITH47 Member

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    a friend of mine went to the Perazzi factory. while there he asked Daniel Perazzi about snap caps and closing with a thumb. Mr Perazzi told him "perazzi shotguns are made to close and pull the trigger, don't worry"

    ernie
     
  20. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    SR1 wrote: "take it to a good gun smith and have it fixed."

    Well, I just might consider doing that, but first, I would like to know precisely what the PROBLEM is. The "symptom" is that the gun is hard to open, but precisely what is the "problem"? Am I to believe that the "problem" is that the locking mechanism is too well fitted together?

    I'm beginning to believe that the problem is that the bolt goes too far into the locking recess. By doing so, it creates more friction on both the top surface and the bottom surface of the bolt since there is more surface area in contact.

    Holding the lever while closing the gun prevents the bolt from going so far into the recess and makes the opening of the gun much easier. Why wouldn't a small piece of metal (of proper thickness) installed in the rear of the recess do the same thing without me having to hold the opening lever?
     
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