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History behind the 16 and 27 yard lines ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Hammer1, Nov 11, 2012.

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  1. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    .

    What is the history behind the selection of the 16 yard line for Singles and the 27 yard line for the farthest line for Handicap ?

    I am not sure that 16 and 27 are common numbers for any other sport or activity.

    There must be an interesting story behind their selection.

    .
     
  2. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    Origanally the 25 yd.line was the maximum for handicap shooting. The man who probably changed that was Arnold Reigger. He and his model 12 were dominating the Handicap trapshooting world in the early 50s and it is generaly accepted that the ATA created the 27 yd. barrier for that reason.Interestinly enough,it was not Mr. Reigger who first reached the 27! It was Merle Stockdale in Feb of 1955 who accomplised this. The 17 yard line was origionaly used in hndicapping ,but, to my knowledge no shooter has been placed there in years(even beore I started registered competition in 1973). The 18 is used for some catagories,but, in most cases adult male shooters are limited to 20 yards or greater.
     
  3. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Mr Timney (sp?) of Timney trigger fame, at the end of his career, with bottle ends for glasses was on the 17 as I recall. He also had wood plastic on the forearm and grip. The gun was really mucked up with finger grooves. I remember him shooting at the Miramar Gun Club (San Diego) in the early 1990's, a few times.
     
  4. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    Slide action: In the early years,the Grand American Handicap championship was won from the 16 yd. line. 1903,05,08,18,24,30,36. The 23 yd. line was the maximum before the 25. With the curent reductions,many adult shooters are on the 18 yd line.

    Clyde
     
  5. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    The first ATA Grand American was shot from a max handicap yardage on the 23 yard line in 1923. Sometime between then and the early 30s, the 25 was mandated as a new max. The 25 was used till 1955 when our BOD saw the need for a 27 yard line. When the 27 was mandated, it took 9 long years before the first 100 straight was shot from there by Col. Throckmorten(sp?)

    What we must remember is this;
    One piece wads didn't become available to ammo makers and re-loaders till 1965!! Another important point to ponder was the addition of harder shot at about the same time frame! Till those two improvements came along, cardboard/fiber wads and soft chilled shot was only ammo available to the masses! Those two facts alone is the reason it took so long to break the 100 from the new max yardage!

    History of great scores shot from max yardages said we needed a new max to keep up with ammo and gun improvements toward the end of the 70s. Instead of following our ancestors protocol of making the max yardages tougher for those gifted shooters mastering the max yardages throughout our sports history, we made our game easier. Violate what made our country the greatest in the world may also be said of our great sport of trapshooting? Mistakes will cost us all at some point in time! This is what I read in our sports history.

    Hap
     
  6. Scott Johnson

    Scott Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Hap,
    Thanks very interesting history you provide. Scott
     
  7. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    Yes oldtimer, you are indeed correct, and I did leave out that 23 yards was at on time the maximum! As of yet I have not seen any adult males on the 18 yd. line, but after reviewing the rules for yrdage assigment,it does appear that adult males will be currently reduced down to the 18 yd. line ------ HANDICAP YARDAGE ASSIGNMENT
    A shooter will be handicapped between 18 and 27 yards and at the
    highest yardage punched on his/her Average Card, unless he/she is
    required to shoot penalty yardage.
    1. New lady shooter - new lady shooters will be assigned a handicap
    of 19.0 yards.
    2. New sub-junior shooter – a new male shooter who has not reached
    his 15th birthday will be assigned a handicap of 19.0 yards. A new
    male shooter who has reached his 15th birthday will be assigned a
    handicap of 20 yards. All additional yardage increases or reductions
    will be earned.
    3. After a lapse in membership any shooter reapplying for membership
    in the ATA, who had been assigned a previous handicap yardage,
    shall resume shooting at the previously assigned yardage. The only
    exception is if the shooter was previously assigned a yardage based
    on age; because of present age the shooter may be required to shoot
    at a longer yardage. Failure of a shooter to shoot previously assigned
    yardage will result in disqualification and any and all scores and prizes,
    including money, forfeited thereby.
    4. Rules for members of other trapshooting associations;
    a. If a shooter is a member of any other trapshooting association or
    was a member of such association the preceding year AND shot
    targets in such association in the current or preceding ATA target
    year, he/she will shoot from the handicap yardage of whichever
    association shows the greater yardage.
    b. A member who, at any time has previously been a member of
    another trapshooting association but has not shot targets in such
    association in the current or preceding ATA target year must shoot
    his/her last assigned yardage in that association (if it is greater)
    unless the shooter has received an ATA 1000 target review and
    been granted a reduction.
    c. It will be the responsibility of the shooter to notify the shoot
    handicap committee if he/she holds or has held a card of another
    trapshooting association. Failure to notify the shoot handicap
    committee of another trapshooting association card may be
    cause for penalty action resulting in forfeiture of entry fees and all
    monies, including prizes, and possible suspension
     
  8. Donm

    Donm Active Member

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    Hap. How much do you feel things other than shot shells made a difference. Especially chokes, well barrels as a whole. Really if a person would site down and think about it guns as a whole have really come a long way in even a short amount of time like 40 to 50 years. Look at triggers, stocks, recoil reducing systems. It is really amazing.
     
  9. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Donm, to appreciate the differences between then and now when it comes to ammo, if forced to use the same ammo of yesteryear, scores would be tanked again! Even with all the gun improvements we've experienced since the late 60s!

    That inferior ammo was the main reason Arnold Reigger dominated the handicap portion of the game. How? He used a 2-3/4 dr load for everything! Less shot deformation under the circumstances as it was. Remember, ammo companies claimed their 3 dr loads going 1200 FPS were superior, not so with many guns of that day or this pushed with soft chilled shot and cardboard/fiber wads.

    The post about Ron Comerford's sharing his invention of an all plastic wad with Winchester completely changed the game of shotgunning from ammo manufacturing to us re-loaders! We couldn't buy all plastic wads and harder shot till 1965 and after? The man is due his due from shooters world-wide as well as ammo manufacturers!! If any man deserves a HoF induction in both state and ATA, it's Ron Comerford's sharing his invention with all of us loving shotgun performance enhancement. Ammo companies should also honor this man's out of the box thinking and getting it done!!

    Hap
     
  10. Scott Johnson

    Scott Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Don,
    You are right and a few things you missed are, classes from All-Americans, wall chart (this is bigger than some think, it provides correct muscle memory) lots of how to videos and eye excercises. Lots of opportunity to get better at a faster rate than 30 or 40 years ago, MHO...YMMV. Scott
     
  11. JAAS

    JAAS TS Member

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    I must agree with Hap - the 27 yard line is outdated to be the max handicap yardage. JAAS
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "How much do you feel things other than shot shells made a difference. Especially chokes,"

    Don that is interesting question. Especially since the changable choke tube has been around since 1959.

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. Martinpicker

    Martinpicker Active Member

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    Concerning the one piece plastic shot collar, I have been told that these have made chokes shoot a full designation tighter than they would have with the old ammo. For example, a Mod. choke using the new shells will now shoot to a Full pattern. Is this true? Martinpicker
     
  14. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Martinpicker, not always and maybe from what I've seen if one credits 10% as being needed to accomplish such.
     
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